So I went to my team and was like, ‘We are gonna only have 9 posts on our Instagram and we’re gonna archive everything else

Jordan Gill

After taking a look at her social media analytics, Jordan Gill (of Systems Saved Me) decided to ditch the way she’d previously been using Instagram for her business for a 9-grid strategy.

In this episode, we talk about:

  • How and why Jordan “9-gridded” her Instagram
  • Pivoting your business/niching down
  • Word-of-mouth marketing
  • Content or relationship marketing – which one is better for you to get good SEO results?

Jordan Gill is a 7-Figure Business Strategist whose mission is for high-achieving business owners to prioritize rest without sacrificing revenue! She’s helped over 400 coaches and consultants work with clients only 4 days a month with VIP Days! When she’s not spreading the gospel of VIP Days, she’s working on one of her thousand-piece jigsaw puzzles or traveling the world with her husband and bonus son. 

Jordan Gill helps service providers and strategists structure and sell virtual VIP days. Click here to get her Free VIP Day Roadmap!

The Membership to Get Data-Driven by Lanie Lamarre

Read the full transcript

Jordan Gill  0:00  
So we were looking at our data and I was just like we’re doing so much like I’m team do the least okay? I’m never do the most. And so I’m like, How can we reduce this? So I looked at our data. And like, at the time, our reels our stories were what were working really well and what got engagement, what got DMS, what got reach all of that stuff? So I was like, Okay, what does it look like for us not to post and a friend of mine, Hunter Nylund willing, and then Megan Dowd on Instagram, both like within a week, switch over to this nine grid strategy. And this is fascinating is this, what it looks like to not post. So I went to my team and was like, we are going to only have nine posts on our Instagram, we’re going to archive everything else.

Meg Casebolt  0:50  
You’re listening to social slowdown, a podcast for entrepreneurs and micro businesses looking for sustainable marketing strategies without being dependent on social media. Social media is a double edged sword. It’s a wonderful way to stay connected. But it also can feel like an addictive obligation. And it’s even more complex for businesses, your audience might be right there. But you’ve got to fight with algorithms to maybe be seen by them. So whether you want to abandon social media altogether, or you just want to take a month off, it’s possible to have a thriving business without being dependent on social media. This podcast is all about finding creative, sustainable ways to engage with your audience without needing to lipsync send a cold DMS, run ads or be available 24/7. Let’s get started. Hey, Jordan, thank you so much for being a guest on the social slowdown podcast. So excited to have you today.

Jordan Gill  1:42  
Yes, thank you so much for having me. I’m really excited to geek out and I don’t get to geek out on these sorts of things, a lot of places. So all sorts of goodness coming your way. I think

Meg Casebolt  1:52  
I first discovered you through our friend Lamy Lamar, who is also like an analytics nerd. And so putting the three of our brains together in one place and being like, let us let us track every metric and figure out exactly what’s working and double down on what’s working and ignore the stuff that isn’t. I’m so ready for this conversation. But before we leap into that, give me like a quick blurb of what your business is and how you help people.

Jordan Gill  2:18  
Yes, so I run some saved me, which is a company of nine. And we’ve been in business about six and a half years, we’ve had different transitions, different offers, but for the past two and a half years, and where our focus really is, is helping service providers and strategist, structure and sell virtual VIP days. So we love to help people take their three month projects, put them down into one, sometimes two day offering so that they’re spending less time in delivery, and can be more present in their daily lives.

Meg Casebolt  2:53  
And I think I was like a guest at one of your summits at one point to talk about my VIP days. Because people always think that like search engine optimization has to be a three month or six month contract. It’s like no, I can tell you what to do in a day. And then we can meet up in six months. And I can tell you what worked and what to do next. And it’s really opened up so many opportunities in our business that we don’t feel like, oh, I have to build you a monthly report and like get into this like ongoing non stop hamster wheel of client work when people don’t necessarily need that. So, you know, I’m a big fan of VIP days and productized services and that kind of hands on fast delivery consulting. My ADHD brain is like, give me some quick wins.

Jordan Gill  3:38  
Exactly. I agree.

Meg Casebolt  3:41  
So what I would love to hear from you about is like, when you are opening the doors to your program, where are people finding out about you?

Jordan Gill  3:52  
Yeah, so there’s a couple different ways that people are finding out about us. We do have two big virtual conferences a year, which yes, you are part of one I believe. I remember if it was September 2021, couple years ago. Yeah. So it was I think it was in 2021. And so our virtual conferences tend to get a lot of hoopla because we have a really great affiliate program. And our ads have been decent, except our ads account got shut down this last one. So yeah, I feel it’s like it’s like a rite of passage these days. But so our virtual conference or twice a year big event. Secondly, I do a lot of guest podcasts like this one, where I’m talking and people are intrigued. They come and connect with us in some way, shape or form, whether that’s downloading our roadmap, taking our free quiz. Those are the two other like two big lead magnets that we have. Or I also do like speak at events whether it’s virtually or in person. I do a lot of that as well. So generally speaking, those are the three ways. Instagram really has been giving us more because we’re doing a lot more real, so we are expanding our reach on social. But I would say generally speaking, it’s from those other areas that I talked about.

Meg Casebolt  5:09  
Yeah. And sometimes I think about a lot like Instagram can be a good place to nurture, but not necessarily have a big discovery platform. So somebody might, you know, hear you on a podcast, come follow you on Instagram, and then, you know, sign up from Instagram. But that’s not necessarily the first point of contact that you had with them. So tell me about like the two freebies that you just said, the roadmap and the quiz. When people get to your website, what’s kind of the call to action for each of those options?

Jordan Gill  5:38  
Yep. So for our roadmap, it is the nine steps to set up a successful virtual VIP day. And then the quiz is, what type of VIP day should you create? What’s interesting about both of those is, and again, in our data, our quickest, I guess, people from like sourced, you know, attribution to then joining us is the virtual conference. Second, under that is our roadmap. And so our roadmap, it’s a really simple guide, it’s maybe six pages long talks about some mistakes, it talks about, again, the building blocks, and then we have a $37 offer on the thank you page with that. So a little self liquidating offer. And that’s a bootcamp. So it’s a one hour masterclass, where I go in depth on the nine things that I talked about in the roadmap, and then on the order confirmation page is come in and apply for our program, and whatnot. So that’s been kind of the flow for the roadmap. And then the quiz, interestingly enough, actually just found some new data about we have like a really high unsubscribe rate from quiz leads. And so, you know, with that information, we may not do our quiz anymore, because like, what’s the point, but I would say people usually go through our roadmap, and we have a high conversion rate in a in a decent timeframe of people who sign up for the roadmap, and then usually join our program within 90 days. So So yeah, those are two ways.

Meg Casebolt  7:24  
That’s awesome. And having that kind of the self liquidating offer on the end of it, where you’re like, Okay, well, I’m getting leads, but it’s not like I’m just giving it all away for free or getting an idea of who is interested enough in this to make that small purchase once they get the freebie. And obviously, everything is leading towards the VIP days, you know, years ago, you were all over all the different systems. And now it’s like, no, this is the thing that I want to be known for everything everywhere I talk about is VIP days, and how to do the intensives. And everything along those lines. So every piece of your marketing fits into, this is where we’re going. Nobody feels like they’re getting a bait and switch when they talk to you where it’s like, you know, VIP.

Jordan Gill  8:04  
Like, oh, yeah, everyone, you know, it’s funny, because even when you think about a lot of people in this space, like you don’t really know, where they first came from, like, you know, most people think Amy Porterfield courses, right, but it’s like anyone’s Facebook for Facebook ads? Yeah. And so that kind of is a similar transition, you know, I was systems, which I still love, obviously, for four and a half years. And then for about two, two and a half years, I’ve been very intentional about making a strong pivot to VIP days. So which I still get to know about systems with inside out. But, you know,

Meg Casebolt  8:38  
I think that’s, that’s really important to say, too, is like a lot of people are afraid to niche or they think like, Oh, I already am so well known for this, I can’t make that adjustment. You know, and I was in the same boat where I started as web design. And I was designing sales pages to a great extent and really getting to know the structure of those. And then I moved into SEO and now no one I don’t I don’t know, the last time that I built a website. Because now I’m like, Well, that takes so much time and I could just optimize what people have already done. So well. You know, like, it’s sometimes it can be scary to say like, No, I used to be known for these 10 things and now I want to be known for this one thing it can feel intimidating, like Oh, but what is what about all those leads coming in for those other things are like am I decreasing my revenue potential, but by doubling down on this is the thing that I want to be best at. That’s how you were able to grow it to seven figures a year.

Jordan Gill  9:29  
100% very fast. So because that’s what’s interesting is is I think, yeah, people hold on to an identity, right? I mean, my my business name is to some saved me, right? So for me to make a pivot to not be about systems anymore. Yeah, there was fear behind it. And there was, you know, okay, how is this all actually fitting in? But I think to that, there’s always an opportunity to pivot and change now if you’re just like changing every week. Yeah, you’re not going to Get a lot of traction. However, I built really great relationships, I built really great foundational elements for me to then when I pivot, I have a pretty strong foundation. And it wasn’t like I never talked about VIP days when I did systems because people knew that that’s how I offered my systems. So it wasn’t totally out of the blue. It wasn’t like I’m talking about money, and then all sudden, I’m talking about weightlifting or something. It’s like, what’s happening. So it was it was a pivot to a lot of people. But it wasn’t as strong as a pivot pivot as maybe other people have to do.

Meg Casebolt  10:34  
Yeah, maybe not even a pivot so much as a specialization, like a narrowing versus an adjustment, you’re not exiting, you’re just getting more specific about what it is that you do. And I’m always talking about like, the more specific you can get, the easier it is for the right people to find you and buy from you. Whereas systems is such a huge concept that you have to create so much more volume and try to figure out every single pain point of all, if you’re talking about the onboarding system and the content delivery system in the email systems, like how do you get really well known for any of those?

Jordan Gill  11:06  
Exactly, yeah, yeah. And that that definitely was part of the I wouldn’t even say struggle per se, but just okay, I’m systems is broad. And yes, like, I like all the systems, but what am I actually really good at. And funny enough, when you were talking about, okay, I’d rather tweak what other people have, like, That’s definitely how I am. I like, I’m actually a process optimizer, that that’s what I like to do. And so, you know, creating, taking a three month offer and putting it into a one day delivery of all that is is process optimization, that’s all we’re really doing. So, you know, it’s it’s still it’s very much in line with like my zone and what I love to do, it’s just not necessarily in like the automation side, it’s more on the delivery side.

Meg Casebolt  11:54  
Right. And I think also knowing what your people want to hear from you, you can tell me because we’re geeking out on this, like, oh, yeah, I’m just a process optimizer. But if you were to like change the name of your offer from like, VIP day creation to like, let’s just systematize and process your optimized offer. It’s like no, no one wants

Jordan Gill  12:14  
zero people, zero people

Meg Casebolt  12:16  
care. And that can sometimes be the hardest thing is like, what is the outcome that you can help people with? What is the turnaround time of being able to do that? And I think with the VIP days, it’s so like, No, you you help, like, I can help you sell a VIP day that will you can make back your investment with me. Within a week. If you actually do the work, you just got to do the work. That part. So how many people are in the VIP day program?

Jordan Gill  12:44  
So currently, I think we’re at just under 100. We’ve had about 450 people come through our program in the past two and a half years.

Meg Casebolt  12:52  
And from like a lead gen perspective. I know you said you had all the numbers up through q2 of this year. So give me give me the rundown. I want to hear it.

Jordan Gill  13:01  
Oh, man, we’ve got a lot going on here. So I know in 2022, we had about 6200. So let me preface this by saying what we consider a lead is anyone who did our roadmap, our quiz, bought a virtual conference ticket, those sorts of things. And then what we call a qualified lead is somebody who applies to the program. So just so everyone knows, we have an application before our program to just like protect our community and also like set expectations like I don’t want somebody by and then you’d be like, don’t have to have this awkward conversation of like, we don’t really help you. So now I have to refund. It’s like

Meg Casebolt  13:42  
you’re not ready for this. You need to do this. These three things First, yeah,

Jordan Gill  13:45  
yeah. It’s just as like weird. So I like to have an application upfront, and then and then move forward in that capacity. So when I say leave, that is roadmap quiz, virtual conference ticket. And when I say qualified lead, that’s an applicant. So somebody who’s actually apply to then come into the program. So in 2022, we had 6200. Leads, so 6200 people who join your email list in some way? Yeah, in some way. Yeah, exactly. And so with that said to 200, we have had, I believe, around 110 new clients this year, our price point is 6000 with a payment plan of 6600. And so where other income has come from is mainly like virtual conference tickets are $37 offer and then we do some different back end offer. So we had an alumni group we had doing a retreat with some alumni in like two weeks from now. So there’s like other things involved, but But yeah, we had about, again, 110 ish new clients this year, in 2022, from the 66, where it was 6200 leads scuze. Me, and whatnot. So, so again, people who are like, Oh, I do a program, I want to do it, whatever, like, you have to, you have to be a marketing machine, okay. And if you didn’t like marketing services,

Meg Casebolt  15:22  
that’s what I keep telling people is, like, if you think it’s hard to sell one person, like a $10,000 offer, you don’t want to sell $1,000 offer to 10 people, you know, like, it’s, it’s harder to make the same amount of money because, and like, sometimes I’ll even say like, sometimes things are easy to sell and hard to deliver. Like, if I’m doing a one to one offer for somebody, it’s gonna be really easy to sell, because I’m going to be like, I’m making you a custom solution, that is exactly what you need. But then I have to actually make the custom solution that is exactly what they need. And the opposite of that, which is what you’ve figured out is like, it’s easy to deliver. Because we have these operational systems, we have this container in which it lives, but it’s hard to sell. Because it’s not customized because we you know, if you have I should have done the math when I was listening to you, if you have 100 people out of 6000 buying from you, that’s a really low conversion rate, because you have a lot of people who come in and kick the tires. So, you know, you have to have a huge audience growth to be able to be profitable. And you have to know like, what are the messages that are working to get people to actually buy? What are the message like, like you said, like, our quizzes have a really high opt out, right? Maybe we want to get rid of the quiz, like, the numbers have to be tracked. And they have to validate that the things that you’re spending time on are actually moving the needle, you can’t just throw speak like, if you’re selling a $10,000 services, and you want to make $100,000 a year and you need to sell, you know, one every month ish. You can throw some spaghetti at the wall. Yeah,

Jordan Gill  17:03  
exactly, exactly. You can

Meg Casebolt  17:05  
test and pivot everything. But if you’re like, I need to get you know, I need to get my list to 10,000 a year in order to make 150 sales. Yep. You got to know every lead and what how their behavior is and which emails are they opening and that evergreen sequence and it becomes a much larger marketing machine than just like, I have an offer people will buy it.

Jordan Gill  17:27  
Right, exactly, I have a program, that’s gonna be great. Or I have a course like, it’s passive. I’m like, Whoa, goodness, like that is not it at all. And what’s interesting, too, so I’ll share 2021 numbers as well in comparison, because 2021 I would say was a pretty solid year, more than this year. 2021 numbers, we have 8300. Leads, qualified leads we have which are applicants, but they are about whatever 1367. And then clients we have 212. So you know what was interesting about it, we took a lot more risks and experiments this past year. And then also with, again, adjusting to a lot of differences, like our facebook ads count getting shut down. Our Facebook ads just generally been very different this year than before. Which, oddly enough in 2001, we spent like $25,000 on Facebook ads. And that’s it for a seven figure year 1.2 mil I think is where we ended up.

Meg Casebolt  18:37  
Honestly, I’m surprised that it was so little if you’re talking about growth and scaling at this rate, then you need to have a cost per lead that and you need to get in front of a much larger audience. So oh man, if you’re saying like, totally 25,000 for 2.5 mil, like that’s very low, and people who are probably listening and going like, Oh my God $25,000 on Facebook ads, but like if that is the generator of new people finding you, then that’s actually really great ROI. Until you say like, oh, but now I’m getting half as many leads for the same amount of money or the quality of leads has gone down and they’re not converting as well. And then the Facebook ads campaign gets shut down and you’re like, oh, okay, I need to find an alternative.

Jordan Gill  19:18  
And I think you know, it was the 25k was more nurturing, I will say it was very much it just kept people in our orbit. Because half the battle is they have to remember you because they have 17 million tabs across the top and and whatever else. So it wasn’t our Facebook ads. They did convert some people obviously but it was way more just keeping them warm in a loop. And so so then this year, I mean our cost per leads were atrocious like I remember in March a virtual conference for 30 what it was a 3737 $39 ticket. Remember how much it was? We literally were having to pay $300 on Facebook for a third and I was like, turn off, I turned it off. It’s not the numbers don’t number right. And so

Meg Casebolt  20:06  
I can imagine paying $300 per lead for a $6,000 program sold for a $37 program suddenly, no. And that’s why you need to know your numbers. Anytime that you’re talking about marketing at scale, you need to be able to track every every dollar spent all your time spent. It’s so, so much more difficult to get it right.

Jordan Gill  20:24  
Yeah, Oh, totally. And I think to that 2021 With the pandemic, we’ve only had our program during the pandemic. And so what’s interesting about that is, again, seeing the trends of okay, we got people through like, a really difficult time, and I guess we’re at a pandemic, or whatever we are right now. But, you know, like, it’s, for the first year and a half of the pandemic, like we, our messaging was really on point, we, like, we had a very, we were not first to market even, but I would say we kind of became like the category King, per se. And so then it’s a game of, okay, if we’re the category king, then obviously, everyone is coming for us sort of thing. So, um, so it’s a different game to play, it’s a different, you have to stay nimble, you have to adapt. And so we tried a lot of different things. And a lot of things did not work, and that’s okay. And now we understand, okay, where are our best people coming from? Like, how do we double down on that? And how do we expand on that, like our YouTube was a fail? What else do we try? Tick tock has been interesting. I’m trying to think of all the different things, but we’ve we’ve tried all sorts of shenanigans. And we even had like a live show, which the live show part didn’t work out very well, from a, like viewership perspective. But it did help ourselves in the sense that we could use those case study interviews in our sales process. So you know, there’s, and that’s okay, we can we can afford is to try some things and know that, okay, we’re still going to be alright. But it’s now okay, we’ve done play playing for nine months. And so now let’s double down and get better moving forward. And even making decisions about delivery. Like we have a six month program. And like, when I look at the two types of people that do best, and our programs are like hardcore for two months, like they’re set up for success, and then they can go off on their merry way. Or, and we have like community, we have coaching, we have all this stuff for two months. And then they like, not disappear, but they just were like, I’m good. You know, like,

Meg Casebolt  22:36  
I got what I needed out of this program, and now I can go deliver it and I don’t need the support anymore.

Jordan Gill  22:40  
Yeah. And then there was other people who were like sleuths, okay, like they, they wouldn’t come to a coaching call, they wouldn’t pop their head in the community very often. And then also, in the end of the six months would happen. And they’re like, hey, like, sold 20 VIP days. And I’m like, I never saw your face, like, what are we even talking about? So

Meg Casebolt  22:59  
they’re like, the lurkers of the internet, you know, like they’re doing the work. And I think we did an interview with Lacey Boggs a while back about your invisible audience. And I think sometimes it’s even like the invisible people in your programs that are getting these amazing results. But they’re not showing up. They’re not reporting back until you go look like I have clients where like, I’ve gone to run their numbers after six months I haven’t heard from and I’m like, Oh, my gosh, you’re killing it. But it’s not until I go, because they’re not asking me the questions. They’re not submitting for reviews. They’re just dirt their trip not traveling, but like they’re just plugging along.

Jordan Gill  23:31  
Yeah, exactly. So then I was like, Okay, if that’s the data, right? If the data is six months, is not necessary, then like, we don’t need to keep getting six months. So recently, I was like, we’re not doing six months anymore. I’m not even doing like a last chance at it. Because I know who best fits our program. And so why would I do a last chance on six months, but I know that’s not like the best way to go about things. So now we’re moving into an eighth week. And then I actually just launched a self study for the people who are like, I don’t want all that stuff. And it’s funny, because emails, like, I’m waiting two years for you to do a self study, like I’ve been waiting for you to just do something where like, I don’t have to be bothered. And I’m like, oh, okay, well, there you go. and whatnot. So So again, it’s it’s data on the front end, obviously, with with acquisition, but also even decisions about delivery and about our program, we definitely look at the data for and try to do our best.

Meg Casebolt  24:23  
Yeah, and recognize what’s working and what the clients who are getting the best results, what is their behavior? And then again, it comes back to process optimization, like what what is it about what those clients got at which phase that got them over the hump of things? Where are they getting stuck in these processes? What are the questions that keeps showing up on the coaching calls if people show up for them, that’s all trying to fit and then you can take those people and their experiences and turn them into case studies that can then lead back into more marketing, not necessarily the lead generation but like the conversion rates are going to improve if you have some of those case studies. As in your email sequences, and then maybe your maybe your conversion rate goes from 1.5% to 1.6%. And then the scale that we’re talking about here is it’s not, you know, one person is not going to make or break things, but that one success story may turn into a great email may turn into somebody who sends you 10 more referrals, you know, they’re an affiliate partner, or they’re just telling people how great the program is, that can make a dent just from that one person because they become an ambassador. So it’s not always even these trackable, you know, you’re doing the outreach, sometimes you’re creating an ecosystem of people supporting each other. And just being the being somebody who creates a really great quality product. That’s the best marketing you can do is that word of mouth.

Jordan Gill  25:48  
Absolutely best marketing. I’m here for that every day.

Meg Casebolt  25:52  
So I want to go back to you were talking about, you know, Facebook ads, and you just want it to be kind of the brand awareness of Facebook ads, not necessarily the ads for conversion. And I think that you are in a really unique position because you have a really strong Instagram following. For those of you who aren’t too familiar with the metaverse, like Instagram, and Facebook are owned by the same company. So you can run Facebook ads on Instagram, you can run ads on Facebook and Instagram to people who know you on either platform, or have interacted with your website. And so because Jordan, you have like a lot of traffic to your website, and you have big followings and both of these places, it was a strong, easy solution for you to just be like, well, I want to stay top of mind with this audience. So talk to me about that decision to just like, not even necessarily be like get on my email list, get my funnel, do all these things, but just like, how do I make sure that when people are ready, they remember who I like the justification of brand awareness can be kind of hard financially.

Jordan Gill  26:55  
Yeah, yeah, I can. And I think to, again, I, I say seven figures a lot, because I want people to understand the decisions that I’m making for my company, or because we are at a financial revenue point where part of what we are making can be allocated to brand awareness. So I’m not saying that you can’t do right away, and I said other levels of business. However, that wasn’t what I was necessarily doing other levels of business. So but, um, I would say that I, even more now than before, like the amount of times people see you and know you is like, exponentially more important because it has gotten really competitive here in the online space. There are more people in our marketplace because of what’s been going on with pandemic and resignations and stuff like that. So recognizing that, you know, there’s a few ways that you can come about that, right. Like search is something that we’ve tried to do better at. And we actually finally are on like the first page of of our work like that. Oh, my gosh. And so I think it was earlier this year. So now we actually have some Google like, you know, when I look at we use fathom, instead of waiting. Yeah. And we are able to see that like, we actually do get quite a bit of Google organic, which is interesting, because we don’t have a blog. We don’t have like content on our website. And so you know, it’s to have, again, I don’t have the exact numbers for that particular, but I see it enough to recognize it and be like, Okay, this is interesting. I’m seeing a pattern here. And so, with that being said, Oh, you want to ask? Well,

Meg Casebolt  28:43  
I want to speak to that really quickly, which is that a lot of people will say like, well, I don’t have time to blog, I don’t have time to create a bunch of content and do all the things but one thing that people sort of don’t realize is that the longer you have your website, and the more marketing you do, even if it isn’t on your own website, the better your domain authority is. So the fact that you’ve owned system save for a decade, and you’re not every time you change your business, you change your domain and even if even if you do change your domain you would make sure that it forwards correctly. But all those podcasts interviews that you were on as a guest are sending authority to your website so like some people like to do content marketing in order to create the things on their website and some people are kind of more like you or it’s like I just want to leverage the relationships I already have. I want to build this you know really great summit page and then have a bunch of people send traffic to it and links to it like there are a lot of ways that you can get that those SEO results without it being like straight blogging all the time. But it takes more time and you put in the time.

Jordan Gill  29:54  
I’m just gonna You gotta put time in somewhere like can’t just like not be putting in time whether that You know, I like the differentiation there. Because he I think it is definitely some domain authority for sure for us. But I mean, we weren’t even coming up. I don’t even know what page we were on when it came to system save me our name before this year, like it was like, embarrassed. Like, there was some really messed up stuff on our back end, apparently. And so. So yeah, we had to, like do a whole cleanup, there was all sorts of mess. And it took about a month for us to then get on the first page, because it was very obvious. But always check that because I was not paying attention for like five years. So

Meg Casebolt  30:34  
yeah, like you weren’t doing anything. You were just like, well, I’ll just wait for traffic to come, right. You can’t be good at everything. So you know, when you. And again, it comes back to that idea of like testing what’s working and looking at the numbers. And, you know, you said like, YouTube didn’t work. Well, YouTube’s SEO too. But like, that particular platform wasn’t right for your people. So you tried it, you look at the numbers, and you went Okay, what else can I try instead?

Jordan Gill  30:59  
Yeah, exactly. Which is fine. I was just talking to someone this morning about our YouTube and like literally 95% of our What is it like site views or whatever, from YouTube were from our shorts, and which we were producing like two long form pieces of content a week, which is tiring. For me, like repurpose shorts for my instagram or whatever. They’re

Meg Casebolt  31:21  
just probably your Instagram stories that are also your tic tac, and you just repurpose them over to YouTube.

Jordan Gill  31:28  
And then what was interesting was they were all like, majority were 18 to 24 year old boys. Now it’s like, this is not my audience. No, I have no idea. What about my content is telling you 18 to 24 year old boys. I mean, it was like so far off my leg. Like, I was just like, we need a break, because I’m annoying. So but yeah, you have to you have to know your numbers, you have to, you know, dig into that stuff. I think, too, you know, with 2021, being the year that it was for us, it really showed me like I had I had zero help from Google make. And when I say zero, I had zero help from Google at all, when it came to my website. And so if I was able to make the revenue we made in 2021, with zero help from you’re going to like, be awesome when we actually have Google on our side. It’s one of those things. But yeah, I think that, you know, when it comes to like determining what is going to be best for you, you have to put in some time for data, we, you can see it as a waste, but we put in effort for four months and YouTube. And it’s not a waste, because now we can either determine okay, we either need to pivot the strategy drastically. Or we can just double down on what else is working right and, and go from there. Yeah,

Meg Casebolt  32:51  
and one thing that I really want to talk about with you is, you know, you have 20,000 plus people on Instagram following you and you made the decision at some point this year to just be like, we’re not doing the feed anymore. And the reason I initially reached out to you for this conversation is that I’ve been thinking about doing that for our Instagram. And everyone’s like, did you know Jordan did that? Did you know Jordan nine Grenada, which apparently is the verb for just archiving everything and creating nine, just nine pieces of content nine feed posts on your feed that sort of explain it. So talk me through both like the why and then the how.

Jordan Gill  33:29  
Yep. So again, I have four people on my marketing team, I have my growth manager, I have a social media gal, I have my graphic scout and my video editor. So and they all been with me for three years except for my social gal. So they are phenomenal. And if you can have your marketing department stay with you for the long term. Very beneficial

Meg Casebolt  33:56  
especially in a launch based system like yours, where it’s not all evergreen, and it’s like no someone needs to show up live and like host these trainings and do all these things for sure.

Jordan Gill  34:06  
Totally. So we were looking at our data and I was just like we’re doing so much and I don’t like I’m team do the least okay, I’m never do the most and so I’m like how can we reduce this so I looked at our data and like, at the time our reels our stories were what were working really well and what got engagement, what got DMS what got reach all of that stuff like posts and videos like along when he goes on Facebook, we’re not cutting it. So I was like, Okay, what does it look like for us not to post and, you know, it’s one of those things where like, if you talk it out loud sometimes like it just so a friend of mine, Hunter Nylund willing and then Megan Dowd on Instagram, both like within a week, switch over to this this nine grid strategy and this is fascinating is this what it looks like to not post. So I went to my team and was like, we are going to only have nine posts on our Instagram, we’re going to archive everything else. And

Meg Casebolt  35:11  
I can’t imagine how much time it took to just sit and archive piece by piece. Oh my gosh, I

Jordan Gill  35:16  
know my growth manager went it went through every I was like, I don’t even know how she archived. I don’t even know how to archive things on Instagram. So I just let her do that. And it was funny one day, she’s like, Yeah, like 90% are archived. And I was like, Oh, I like, didn’t even know this. Like, none of this would not affect anything of mine. Because nobody

Meg Casebolt  35:34  
scrolls through to be like, Oh, we wonder what Jordan posted in 2015. Right. Like,

Jordan Gill  35:40  
please never go back out that far. But you know,

Meg Casebolt  35:43  
searchable, either like nobody’s like looking back. Nobody’s googling. Like it’s not going to show up in the search results is doing no good. As an asset in your business.

Jordan Gill  35:51  
No good. Yeah. So archive, right. So there was difference between to be delete and archive archive is we still technically can pull that piece of content up if we wanted to. But then we created nine specific posts that were like, going that were very much conversion heavy. Because if you have a heavy real strategy, and a lot of times people will come to your profile after watching a real because like, Haha, this is funny. Let me go see what she’s about. And so I’m like, what are the nine things that I want people to walk away from when they come to our profile? And so you know, we have values, we have a values posts, we have a community posts, where we just shout out again, the people in our community, we have like, Okay, if you want to get started, here’s a link, we have our roadmap, specifically, I don’t even think we mentioned our quiz because again, of our high unsubscribes. And again, we have like when we started the business and a little bit about me stuff like that. And so it’s basically like a mini website or mini landing page, because that’s the thing too about posts is that it’s not usually all the things you want somebody to know about you and your first nine when you’re just doing not random posts. But when you’re doing posts that aren’t as strategic and like a, you know, nine grid format,

Meg Casebolt  37:12  
right? If you feel like you have to post every day, they can’t all be super high value. Sometimes you just got to phone it in a little bit and be like, well, it’s Tuesday, I’m posting a picture of a palm tree, I guess. I have to get it done. Because the algorithm says I do. And it’s not always the best stuff.

Jordan Gill  37:27  
Exactly. So that’s why I was like this, this makes sense for us. And so we archived everything. By the end of May, and June one we flipped. And so again, I did not think that it was going to be newsworthy, or like creating a lot of buzz per se, I was just like, whatever marketing the posts, and I’m going to talk to people about it. And it just like, people were so curious and shocked and whatnot. And so you know, now I update people about how, how it’s going because it’s like, Okay, before I tell everyone, you need to go do this. Like number one, go look at your insights. Because if your posts are doing well, then please don’t do this. Like this doesn’t make any sense. I think I made some like Instagram like strategist, a little bit angry. But it’s just like, I’m not cook, I’m not coming for you. So, but what’s been the most interesting thing about changing to the strategy. So what is it June, July, August. So whatever we’re coming up on our fifth month, you know, we our views have been up our website tabs have been up, like I 100%. So we test within a test kind of so then we had some reels that were that showed a link in it that was posted nowhere else so that we knew it came from this specific reel.

Meg Casebolt  38:54  
I hope you had some UTM parameters on the back of the reels that way you were like I know which reel it is let’s set up all the short links. Yes.

Jordan Gill  39:04  
So we only did one reel for this particular test, because then we run a run some Facebook ads to it cuz it was doing so well. But then that’s what showed on my Facebook ad account, which is obviously so you know, so we put on this real, put some very, very specific hashtags on it and like let it fly. And so what was interesting was, it was one for an OBM private podcast. That was four episodes of already pre recorded content that I just repackaged into a private podcast. And it was for OEMs who want to or interested in a VIP day. And so what happened then was we put it out there and it got like a decent amount of views maybe 3000 or so. And I think within 24 hours we had 100 people hit the page exactly 196 of them signed up. So if you know math, that 96% 96% I’ve never never never had a page convert at 96. And I was like, sounding alarms put the ad together.

Meg Casebolt  40:10  
Okay, but let’s also talk about like, when people talk about conversion rates, sometimes people would say 96 out of 100. And be like, Wow, that’s a really high conversion rate. And that would be like what you put in the name of the podcast. But some people would say, 96 out of the 3000 that saw it. And now suddenly, we’re talking about, you know, just recognition of what I’m always preaching, like, what are the numerator and denominator in your conversion rate? Because people can tell any story they want to tell? And it’s not always apples and apples comparisons? Totally. Yeah. 96% of people who see the page signing up and converting is really impressive.

Jordan Gill  40:47  
Yeah, minimize that. Yes, but yeah, so there was the 3000, who viewed then 3000, from the 100, from the 3000, right. And then there’s the 96 out of 100. And then what we did on the on the thank you page of that was, hey, in the next 15 minutes, we were is virtual conference time. So hey, in the next 15 minutes, we’ll give you $10 off, if you want to come join our virtual conference to learn like all the things about VIP days, and not just from these four interviews. And wherever also, then we had 17 People do the 15 Minute. So that was $9. And then we actually had several people, I don’t remember the exact number, that after the 15 minutes was over, they went and bought the regular ticket anyway, from the private podcast. Excellent, then I know at least two I think maybe even three people end up joining our program. So from this free real thing that I like, threw out there and was just like testing random shenanigans. Like, we had three people pay us $6,000 Each, I was just gonna say

Meg Casebolt  41:51  
the like clickbait title here would be like my $18,000 Real, which is what

Jordan Gill  41:58  
it is, right? So you know, it’s it. But again, I know that because you have with tests, like if I had put the link in my Instagram bio, or had I put the link and guess you can UTM all of this stuff, right? But right, it was the most like safe test, because it’s like, this is literally the only place I’ve ever put this URL, not an email, not anywhere else on the internet. So it really created a controlled environment for us to test this out. And and now I’m like, Oh, my gosh, everybody do a private podcast like to like some small thing, like I’m such a fan. But

Meg Casebolt  42:30  
I think also like, even if you are sending things out on multiple channels, so in this case, you’re like, This is the link that I put in this reel. And this is how I know that this is where people are coming from, but you could take that same landing page, change the UTM parameter, and send it out via your email. And then you could have that comparison of like, oh, man, I had a much higher click through rate from reels than I did from email like so it doesn’t necessarily have to be like, try different things on different channels. But the where we’re getting is like track what you’re doing. And if you don’t have the capacity to do all the things, track what it is that your art you are doing, and don’t spend time on the things that aren’t working, which in your case was the feet? Yeah, exactly. And I wonder when you said like, I have a full time social media manager and I told her to stop posting on Instagram I can imagine. Like the oh my god, am I getting fired? Because that’s my job feeling. Like two weeks? That’s like, you’re really not, oh, that’s a bad word. But like, you’re like, Oh, what, what did I just get myself into, she’s like getting rid of my job. She’s eliminating a major part of what I do. But like, if you’re saying we’re gonna eliminate this, because it’s not working, and we’re gonna spend time on something to see if it works better. Having a team that understands the metrics that sees the vision, and that you’re able to articulate to them, we’re not just getting rid of this, because I’m bored with it. But here are the reasons why. And here’s what it’s going to create the space for us to do instead, you’re not just going, we’re gonna minimize because I don’t want to do it.

Jordan Gill  44:10  
Right. That’s not what we’re doing. We’re not basing it off of Jordans, you know, random emotion of the day. You know, it’s, we have to make decisions on data if we make it on the drama because I tell myself all sorts of stuff. If we make it on a drama, like my business would be chaotic constantly. And not because I’m a chaotic person, but because feelings are fleeting, right? You have one feeling one day one feeling the next. So it’s so so crucial. And that’s why I knew I could nerd out on this on your podcast. Because I’m just like, Y’all see, like me on Instagram. You just think, okay, I need to be on Instagram. And it’s like, there’s so many reasons and decisions and data backing that up for us. That again, if you go to somebody else who’s a total YouTube Rockstar, like they’re gonna have a very different Sorry about YouTube than me. And that’s great, right? And they’re following their data. It’s about you understanding your own data to make those decisions versus relying on other people’s data who have a completely entirely different business than you maybe serve different people have different I mean, there’s so many variables that you just really cannot take someone else’s word for something, or even not even their word, just their presence on our platform, you can’t just take that as a Why should be doing that, too. Right. And so that’s why I like to share my reasonings behind my decisions and why I even posted about why archived everything in the first place, because I was like, people are gonna come at me. And I’m like, what just happened? There are people that were like, Jordan, all of your posts are gone, like you’ve been hacked, like, whatever else, and they were freaking out for me. And I was like, Nope, it’s okay. Like this was on purpose, like, you know, so it’s important to share the why the reasons,

Meg Casebolt  45:55  
it’s important to share the why. And it’s also important to ask the why. There’s a lot of people out there who are sharing that this is the framework that works for me, and therefore it will work if you apply it to your business, without necessarily giving the caveats that you just did around like, this is what we saw in our insights. And this is how we were tracking how things were working. And this is what we decided to do instead, and this is going to work for us. But here’s what you need to look into to decide if it works for you. And having those kinds of nuanced conversations, they take longer. They don’t fit into the timeline of a Tiktok. Right. And and so you have to do research as a consumer before just adopting someone else’s system. So no, just saying like, Well, Jordan nine grid, and so no, I’m going to nine grid, but like if that’s where your leads are coming from, don’t do it, please.

Jordan Gill  46:47  
Please do not alert.

Meg Casebolt  46:50  
And if you need help figuring out what to do. Our joint friend, lady just started a membership around how to get data driven, and how to be able to read these numbers understand it. So from an affiliate, that was not part of the plan. But other than that, because she’s like helping you figure out how to read these numbers and make sense of them on an ongoing basis. Because it’s not easy. And these things are changing all the time. And just because YouTube works for me doesn’t mean it’s going to work for you. Totally, and it’s works less than it did a year ago for me. And that’s knowing the number, knowing the numbers, knowing how the platforms change, and knowing how the world is changing, knowing that, you know the world. Yeah, early pandemic, everyone was doing online learning, then we all got burned out on it. And then people are a little bit more skeptical. They’re not as likely to join up a program. Some people like to self study, some people aren’t going to do a self study, like they need to have that community. And so recognizing that the online business world and the way that people are engaging with other businesses changes drastically, like I would say twice a year, there’s like a big seismic shift underneath our businesses. And doing what always has worked is not going to continue to work forever.

Jordan Gill  47:59  
Yeah, and that’s not a knock on you, that doesn’t mean that you’re doing things wrong, that literally just is. So you got to kind of get comfortable with with change, which a lot of us are not great with admittedly. And so I think, you know, the more comfortable you can be around knowing your data, because then you’re gonna be able to see the change happening before it can drastically muck up your life or your business, right? Because you’re you’re seeing something I’m not just seeing you say one day again, you’re seeing weeks, you’re seeing months of shifts, and you’re like, Okay, I need to pivot in some way. Like you don’t wait until your sales completely go to zero or you don’t wait until like

Meg Casebolt  48:42  
your facebook ads account gets shut down. And then you start a new marketing process.

Jordan Gill  48:47  
You know, it’s you’ve got that the data really is key to everything. That’s that’s what I preach. And I know it’s not the sexy thing, but it’s sexy to me, because I can catch stuff a lot faster than other people

Meg Casebolt  49:00  
know and not go so far down a path that is going to be problematic. Yeah, absolutely. So if people want to come get your roadmap, where are they going to get that information? How can they get to know more about working with you

Jordan Gill  49:14  
are so so you can go to free VIP day Very easy domain. And you can check it out there and then again, like I I’m on Instagram, that is my jam, because you didn’t hear that multiple times.

Meg Casebolt  49:29  
If you come to like work and concluding you’re like, Come connect with me on LinkedIn, I live in like Limbo.

Jordan Gill  49:37  
So yeah, so Instagram, my damn app systems, plural saved me. And then also our normal website is just some say And there’s different things there. Now you can Google

Meg Casebolt  49:48  
it and it will show up. So

Jordan Gill  49:50  
this took me long, but you know, it’s you get to everything eventually. It’s like

Meg Casebolt  49:58  
it’s like a smorgasbord. You just have to Add where to start and then work your way around. You can always go back for more Alaskan king crab legs, if that’s what’s working for you or you can try something new. It’s fun. It’s a buffet

Jordan Gill  50:10  
to choose so so yeah, I would say those three places.

Meg Casebolt  50:13  
Well, thank you so much for digging into numbers and geeking out with me. I really appreciate it.

Jordan Gill  50:17  
Yeah, well, so great. Thanks for having me, Meg.

Meg Casebolt  50:20  
Thank you so much for listening to the social slowdown podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe or come on over to social and sign up for our email list so you never miss an episode. We’d also love if you could write a review to help other small business owners find the show you can head over to social Or grab that link in our show notes for easy access. We’ll be back soon with more tips to help you market your business without being beholden to social media Talk to you then.

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