Ep. 49: Using Words to Convert: Copywriting with Krista Walsh

Meg Casebolt 0:00
If we can all show up and have messaging that feels empathetic, and it feels warm, but also helps us get clients who are at the right stage of business and whose problems we can help them with. It makes everything else easier in our businesses.

Krista Walsh 0:19
Yeah, oftentimes people use their website or maybe I think everyone should be using their website sort of like a source of truth, right? Like a sales tool, a marketing tool, like this place where people can just go in the middle of like, Oh, I heard someone on a podcast, I want to check them out, Oh, I saw someone’s like, LinkedIn posts are interesting. I want to check them out or social, or like their YouTube video, I want to check them out. And it’s like a place they can go to, like, get this full story of what someone actually is and what they believe in and what they offer and why that makes their clients lives better to your point. And I do think that makes everybody’s lives easier, including our customers.

Meg Casebolt 0:55
You You’re listening to social slowdown, a podcast for entrepreneurs and micro businesses looking for sustainable marketing strategies without being dependent on social media. Social media is a double edged sword. It’s a wonderful way to stay connected. But it also can feel like an addictive obligation. And it’s even more complex for businesses, your audience might be right there, but you’ve got to fight with algorithms to maybe be seen by them. So whether you want to abandon social media altogether, or you just want to take a month off, it’s possible to have a thriving business without being dependent on social media. This podcast is all about finding creative, sustainable ways to engage with your audience without needing to lip sync, send to cold DMS, run ads, or be available 24/7. Let’s get started. Hello, and welcome to the social sled on podcast. I am so excited to have Christo with me here today. Thank you so much for being here. Chris spa.

Krista Walsh 1:51
Yeah, thank you so much, Meg, I am excited to I think we were talking before the call that the reason I was so attracted to this podcast as like a listener is that social media has never worked in like a major way for me, I’ll say. So I have definitely found other ways to market myself. And I know you’re all about that, too. Yeah. And I think

Meg Casebolt 2:11
that’s very true. I hear it more and more, you know, a year ago, I wasn’t necessarily the person that people turned to with that experience. But since we started publishing, it’s been a much more common occurrence to hear that. And so I’m so thrilled that you’ve shared that because it’s like, it’s not the not only not the only way, but like there are a lot of people who feel either like isolated by social media, or they don’t necessarily feel like they belong, or they know what to do or like hearing other people articulate that can feel less isolating in this online space. So tell me a little bit about what your business is and how you get clients for it, then especially if you’re not spending a ton of time on social.

Krista Walsh 2:57
Yeah, yeah, great question. So I am a website copywriter and strategist. So for those people who don’t know what that is, is essentially, when you’re launching a new website, most people think about hiring a designer who brings a website to life makes it look amazing. But then there’s this whole other piece, which is the content, like the words that are actually being written on the website. And that piece is what I do. As far as where I get clients, the majority of my clients actually come through Google search. So and the majority come through, like landing on my homepage, actually. So I’ve really nailed my foundational SEO, which is a piece of what I do for my clients to so that’s how most people find me because I’m ranking for terms like, you know, like website copywriter, I think is the biggest one that I’m ranking for, which is really specific to what I do. So a lot of people who are searching for that are really in that hiring mindset. So they come across my website, the content that I’ve written there resonates with certain people then they reach out to hire me. And sometimes even without doing sales calls, I’ve booked like $2,000 projects and things so yeah, that’s definitely the biggest way the other biggest way that I get people to find me is through like speaking engagements.

Meg Casebolt 4:09
Oh, that’s interesting. Yeah, so where are you speaking? Is this like podcast interviews like this? Or are you going on to stages how are people hearing about you?

Krista Walsh 4:18
I have not been on a physical stage yet that would well I

Meg Casebolt 4:21
mean 2020 the pandemic and like what what are state what is what is humanity what what is being in a room with people? Gosh,

Krista Walsh 4:30
yeah, yeah, for sure. I but definitely a lot of virtual stages like doing conferences, a lot of summits? Yes, podcasts as well. So this tensive like you you’re able to like reach a ton of people really quickly, I guess, depending on how big the event is. But you know, like you might get like 400 People like watching your presentation or something which is huge for me. And then a certain number of those may be in a place in their business where they’re right away like ready to hire website copywriter, the majority of people probably He doesn’t line up exactly where they’re in that place yet. But they’ll join my email list or follow me on socials maybe, but usually, then they convert or my email list like months or weeks later,

Meg Casebolt 5:10
right. And the other great thing about something like a summit or a conference or something virtual like that is that, to an extent, the creator or leader of that online event has already curated a group of people that had something in common. It’s not like the Online Business Summit. You know, like I recently spoke at the profitable designer Summit, it was very much like, I want to speak to web designer, so I am going to pursue this opportunity to get in front of them. And for you, you’re talking to people who maybe are a little bit newer in business, and they are starting to get their website ready. Maybe they’ve DIY it, and now they need to hire somebody to make it better. Or, you know, they are just starting to get their website together. They’re not sure exactly what to say. And you’re landing them at that exact moment, which is a really important. I mean, like you said, they’re, they’re coming in, and a lot of them are ready to buy, because they’ve they’re either seeking you out, or they’re seeking out an opportunity for people who are in that state.

Krista Walsh 6:09
Yeah, yeah. Are you talking about like, people finding me through like SEO and website or like the the speaking

Meg Casebolt 6:14
both, I think, you know, if you are establishing yourself as an expert in a conference for people who are at that state of being where they’re trying to figure out how to talk about themselves, where they’re trying to figure out their messaging, or what they should put on their website, then those people are a rapt audience kind of already in a container, whether again, that’s a podcast, talking to side hustlers, or virtual conference where they’re talking about those specific topics, or, you know, the way that you’re presenting yourself on your website is also aligning with people who are in that stage of seats seeking you out or seeking out those services that you have positioned yourself to show up for.

Krista Walsh 6:54
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think what you’re talking about like stage of business is, is a piece that I have come to later in terms of identifying of who I’m speaking to, partly through, like different events, and like realizing, like, what types of people are at these different events, and like, where I should actually try to target because that is huge, like the person who is ready. Like if anyone’s listening who is similar as me like a done for you service provider, the person who’s like buying that type of service is not a new business owner, they’re, they’re probably, I would probably say, at least two years in, but maybe many of my clients are even like 10, or whatever, you know, out there throughout this place where they’re they’re done DIY, and they want to hire an expert, they kind of already know a little bit about what you do, they maybe hired someone in the past. So that’s a totally different market. And definitely when I’m looking for, like events that invite me to speak, and like where I want to go and like pitch to speak at finding those groups is sort of my like, my next. My next challenge, I’m sort of doing that already. But

Meg Casebolt 7:54
yeah, right, trying to find place where the intermediate and advanced business owners are hanging out versus the the new folks who don’t have the money, but have the time to DIY it. And the ways that you’re the things that you’re trying to be found for and the things that you’re teaching people are going to be different for those different stages of business. So it’s like your website, if you’re trying to teach people how to do their own copy is going to be much more tutorials and how tos. But that’s not what you want to do. So yeah, like you kind of have to speak to a more advanced understanding of what an online business can do, or how your website can work for you.

Krista Walsh 8:32
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think like, going into like messaging advice, like understanding stage of business of who you’re talking to, is something I don’t think it’s talked about enough. Because, like, I’ve run into this problem, where like, most of my messaging for the past few years has sort of been around this concept of like, let’s make sure your website converts so that you can have more clients and that you can like, you know, build a scalable business or like a business that is profitable, whatever. But you know, over this past year, I’m sort of drilling down on my niche, and I’m sort of taking my own advice and being like, okay, that messaging probably doesn’t actually resonate with the people that I actually serve as much because largely, they have profitable businesses. Many of them are like, I’m super busy, like, I, it’s not that I need more clients, but where they’re struggling is like, my website is five years old, I just haven’t had time to touch it. And so much has changed since I launched it. And it just doesn’t reflect what we’re actually bringing to the table. So it feels inaccurate, it feels bad from like a, like a visionary standpoint of what they’re endeavoring to do in the world and what they actually do for their clients. Right. So that’s a totally different message shift. So I think if you finding that your website or any type of messaging that you’re writing or putting out there just isn’t totally landing with the people that you actually want to be working with. Maybe thinking about the stage of business thing could be really interesting.

Meg Casebolt 9:53
Yeah, I love that especially that recognition that you went through have. I had this messaging I was getting clients, they weren’t quite what I wanted or the the messaging wasn’t quite in alignment with the outcome that they were desiring. So let me try something else. And let me see if talking more about updating, copy and holding the vision. And like, there’s a level of thought leadership that goes into that, that is beyond just let me get as many people as humanly possible into this funnel and drive them. And I think you probably have noticed that within your own business too, because as a one to one service provider, like, you don’t need to have 100,000 hits on your website, you need maybe like 100, and you need like five of them to convert to leads, and then you need to make like two of them and two customers. And so the scale of that, and the, the way that you are measuring your own success, can feel very different. And we’ve been sort of lied to by influence marketers that just want these big 100,000 visits a day and million followers on Instagram, but like that doesn’t always convert to people who actually give your money.

Krista Walsh 11:14
Totally, that has been my experience with social media, like it feels like. Like, there’s two goals, there’s like the goal to like grow on social media and like have a bigger audience. And then there’s the secondary goal of like, then taking that audience and how to convert those people into clients and customers. And I don’t know if it’s that sort of balance that I haven’t ever been able to, like fully get solid on of like, do I focus on growth? Do I focus on bringing people in or whatever it just feels like a lot. And then especially with all of the channels and like platforms itself? But then even like, if you look at something like Instagram, oh my god, like what do you do? Do you do reels? Do you do like lives do you do story. And of course, like every Instagram expert is like, do them all, just do them all, you know, and you’re like, I can’t do.

Meg Casebolt 12:02
I saw an Instagram post once I saved it. And I have like, repeated it but intentionally left the person on uncredited because they were so honest, in their approach to it of every week, we want you to do seven reels, we want you to do at least 14 stories we want you to like, and they were playing to the algorithm and they were giving you a formula that works. And I know Look at that. And I’m like, Holy shit, no. Like, if Instagram is building an Instagram audience so that I could sponsor posts was my business. Right? Then yes, I would be happy to put that in. But instead, I am just creating for the platform. And basically, if at some point you’re like, who am I even creating this for? Like who’s watching this for? If I’m creating, you know, 10 hours of content a week on this platform? Who’s watching all of that? Oh, my goodness, are they? And? And also, who are you talking to? Right? Right, you’re talking to other business owners who are busy running their businesses, so maybe more of a b2c platform would work for that? Or depending on what time of day you pull it, there’s so many factors that the Instagram experts who say like yeah, just do reels and lives and stories and, and and like, that is their business to get you to be on Instagram, their business is to tell you how to do Instagram, not how to sell other services on this platform. So there’s very much this like, kind of cognitive dissonance of the people who are telling me how to be successful, what are they successful at? Is it something I want to be successful at?

Krista Walsh 13:50
I always think about it like, there are all these like fitness influencers that are like ripped, right? And they’re like, all you have to do is like workout like three hours every day or like whatever but like you forget as a consumer sometimes that their entire job is to look like that. And it’s such like it’s so different, like giving that advice to somebody who has like another job. But isn’t that like and that’s what I think about exactly when you talk about people who are like experts on Instagram about how to grow Instagram or or whatever social media platform it is. It’s like a Yeah, it’s a I am not totally confident that they understand what other people are going through in terms of like well this advice work for somebody who has like so many other things to do.

Meg Casebolt 14:35
I think about like the example you just gave of being a fitness expert. Yeah, I think about Rob McElhenney that he had that season of Always Sunny in Philadelphia where he gained like 60 pounds as like a joke. And then the next season he came back and he was a rip it again. And he was like on I don’t know Men’s Health magazine or something like that. And they asked him the question in the interview, they were like, how did you get from like, over or wait to back at being in peak performance condition in six months. And he was like, I mean, it’s so easy. You just hire a personal trainer to move into your house, and you hire a personal chef to cook all your meals. And it was just like so facetious about like he, he could do it, because it is his job to Yeah. And that was part of the like, plotline of the TV show, but it was so like tongue in cheek about like, well done, just have all of these professionals move into your house for six months, and you can be ripped. It’s and have your TV show pay for them, obviously. Right?

Krista Walsh 15:40
Oh my god. Yeah, that was so I love that show actually brought that up. I remember him talking about it one time. And he was like, oh, like, you know, most TV stars, like, get better looking as the show goes on. So like I wanted to like, have a season where I just got worse looking for some reason or not that it’s like worse looking to like gain weight. But I think it’s just like the cultural.

Meg Casebolt 16:03
The cultural expectation of you know, you go from Joey Tribbiani season one, and somehow he gets younger over the course of the 12 years. No wrinkles. Yeah, so that was quite a fun digression. So, moving off of kind of the social media side of things and talking about not just where do you get your clients from. But let’s say that your clients are in a similar business model or approach to business that you are, which is, I don’t need to have millions of followers, I want to take the people who are already finding me and turn those into clients, I want to either, you know, improve my conversion rate, like you said, you’re sort of moving away from that. But I want my website to reflect who I am and help people connect with me and also help them take that next step. Talk me through some of those things you help your clients with, with if you have any, like practical applications of how this has worked for clients, I’d love to hear those.

Krista Walsh 17:13
Yeah, yeah. And I think I want to point out what you just said, like the people who are finding you, you want those people to become clients. And that is sort of like what happens on your website. Because on something like social media, like whatever platform you’re on, people will be finding you sure, but they may not at all be in the hiring mindset, they may not at all be your ideal client, they may just be busy at the moment, whatever. But like when,

Meg Casebolt 17:38
even if even if they are ready to hire, the platforms are not built for them to have that conversation with you. They’re like, No, stay on Instagram, stay on LinkedIn, don’t go off to check out the website. So once they finally get to your website, it’s almost like a different level of commitment that they’ve made.

Krista Walsh 17:55
Right, exactly. So it’s those people that you have the best shot of converting, it’s like a much easier conversion. Because you they’re there because they’re very interest in what you have to offer. Unless they’re like a competitor or somebody who like wants to do what you have to do. But we’re not really always some of them writing to those people. Yeah. But for the potential clients who are there, they’re they’re really interested in what you have to offer, they probably already know like, what it is you do, right? Like they know what a marketing consultant is because they think they might need one, right? So you don’t have to do this, like the stages of marketing awareness, like on your website, the way you have to do with other channels. Because they’re already they’re at the like bottom of funnel like they’re aware of their problem where they’re solution aware, they’re kind of probably honestly trying to decide if like you can help them or if they should go somewhere else, or if someone else who’s open in their browser maybe is a better fit. So yeah, it’s a lot easier to convert those people if your messaging is really strong. And a big part of that is just getting clear on who those people are. And I always advise people to interview them, like, interview your best past clients. This is a big part of like my projects with clients is I always insist on interviewing their past clients who fit the target that they’re trying to pursue. But if you don’t have any past clients that are totally a match, I mean, go find people who match that and just ask them to do an informational interview, like you’ll get so much information about what their mindset is, when they look to hire, what kinds of things they need to be told, and what are the like the green flags that they’re sort of looking for to go to that next stage of working with you?

Meg Casebolt 19:26
Absolutely. As part of a launch that I recently did, I’m sort of still in the middle of, because that’s how life works. And I’ll do a whole podcast episode about this in a couple of weeks. But I recently looked at over 100 websites, and I had people submit the opportunity for me to look at them and give them feedback. And I had an intake form that said like, Who are you trying to reach? What are the problems that they’re experiencing? And I could often see the threads of what you’re talking about this voice of customer research this understanding of what The problems were that their audience was dealing with showing up in the intake form, but then not correlating into what’s showing up on their website. So in their intake form, they would say something like, I want to talk to women who are in their 40s. And they have kids, and they’re also dealing with aging parents, and they feel really stressed out, like they don’t have any time for themselves. And they want to be in better health. And then I’d look at their website, and it’d be it would be like, you want optimal health and wellness? And I’m like, Well, do they want optimal health and wellness? Or do they just want to have like, a half an hour a day to themselves? Right? Like, do we have to leap from, you know, it’s almost like Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, you need to know where on that hierarchy your people are, are they at the base level of the pyramid, where it’s like, I need safety, I need a roof over my head, I need to make sure I’m eating, and then work your way up to optimal health and wellness and self determination. You know, like, there are a lot of steps in between, and a huge part of voice of customer research, which you’re talking about, like kind of understanding what your ideal client is going through and why they need you right now is recognizing what are those problems that you can solve for them, especially if they’re going to be seeking you out, you know, if they stumble onto your social media profile, they get to know you that way, you have a bit more time to like, nurture them and warm them up. But if they’re ready to buy, they’re not gonna go watch your Instagram. They’re gonna go say, here’s the problem that I have, what is the solution?

Krista Walsh 21:40
Yeah, and I definitely think this is true for people who are out of that DIY stage, I think, like, when I think of my own behavior as a consumer, if I’m like, for something, if I’m in a DIY stage, I might, like, try to DIY a lot of stuff. So then I probably am, like, consuming someone’s like Instagram concept content for a while. And then I’m like, Okay, I’ll like buy their course. Right. But it’s like a lower investment. But if I’m like, I just need to hire a designer for my website, I’m probably going straight to their website, like, you know, and like looking at their portfolio and like, and what their services cost and how it works and stuff like that. And I’m not really interested in like, reading, or like watching videos about them talking about whatever, you know. Totally. Yeah. So yeah, when

Meg Casebolt 22:29
you have that, like, information from your clients, interviews, yeah. How do you take that research that you’re doing that that kind of insights from their client? Getting a little better with, like, your clients, clients? But how do you take that information and data from the interviews and turn it into the words on the website?

Krista Walsh 22:53
Yeah, that’s a great question. So if anybody is super interested in how I did that, do this, I have a very thorough blog post that I think it’s my most recent blog post at the time of this recording, but it’s all about my website copywriting process. And I actually break down all the steps and you can sort of peek into my spreadsheets and stuff like that, if you want to see that. But the shorter answer is, I do all I do like five or six client interviews, right, I get the transcripts. For those I use, like a transcription service to get the transcripts, I break them down into quotes of like, every time they’re talking about something, and then I have like a spreadsheet that I created, and I sort them into different messaging categories, so I can sort of look for patterns. So it’s like, Okay, here’s a pain point. Here’s a hesitation for buying here is a motivation for buying. Here’s like, where they’re talking about, like a feature that they really liked about my client service here is where they’re talking about my client versus like other people they considered, you know, so I have all these messaging categories, and I sort all the quotes based on that. And then I look at all those categories and go what are the patterns through here like maybe I have 30 quotes in the pain points category, but really, it’s people saying the same five things in different ways. And so then I have all of a sudden these five pain points that I’m pretty confident like most people will resonate with, and then I take that information and look at that when I’m actually writing copy.

Meg Casebolt 24:23
And so you work that right into you know, you know, you’re a good fit for this program. If and then you can kind of include those pain points in that space and say, and really come out and, you know, I know some some copywriters will say like pain, agitation solution or problem agitation solution, where it’s like, you’re fully acknowledging that there is a problem to be solved and you recognize that and people like to see that acknowledgement of oh, this person knows where I am. I’ve heard some people say like, I don’t like to, like agitate pain point. because I’m just trying like it’s triggering for people. And I’m like, maybe think of it less as agitation and more as just like, acknowledging the reality of the situation. And if you’re hearing it through all these client interviews, especially across multiple interviews, if there’s that kind of salient point that keeps showing up, then there are going to be other people out there who have that same problem.

Krista Walsh 25:25
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I’m actually doing a long like email newsletter series right now all about exactly what you’re talking about, like, how do you talk about problems and pain points that are real, without making your audience feel bad? Yes. And I think the key here is really like intention. Right? So your intention is exactly what you said. It’s, it’s to acknowledge what’s going on and to tell people like, you’re not crazy for feeling this way. Like this is a legitimate a lot of people feel this way. It’s not wrong. It’s not your fault. But this exists and I can help you like, overcome that or I can help you like make this less painful. And yeah, the pain agitate solution formula, I actually love a got a lot of it got a big hit during like an ethical, the ethical marketing boom of the past couple years, or whatever. And I think just because if it’s in really clunky hands, you can get to this place where you’re like, here’s this pain point, and oh, my god, it’s so bad, because you’re so stupid. And I’m the only one who can help you. And it can sound bad. Like, to me, it’s the difference between kicking somebody when they’re down and like empathizing with them. And that’s obviously hugely different. But a lot of it comes across and like, the tone of voice that you use your intention. And yeah, I really think a lot of that can be solved just by having a really strong, like explicit intention to empathize and not to manipulate not to push people when they’re down.

Meg Casebolt 27:02
Yeah, yeah, manipulation is a good term for it, because it can feel negative and critical. But it doesn’t have to in the right hands.

Krista Walsh 27:16
Yeah, yeah. And one of the things I wrote in my first like, email in the series is like, think about like, if your best friend or like your sister, or someone you’re really close to like comes to you, and they’re like, struggling with something. And they’re like, Oh, my God, like, I’ve just had the worst day at work. I’m just like, hating my job. It really sucks. Like, nothing’s going my way. Like, most people understand that, you know, like, the best response unless somebody tells you differently is probably to empathize with them and validate what they’re saying to be like, Oh, my God, that does suck. I totally get what you mean, your boss’s an asshole. Or like, whatever is going on, right? Like, and if you do something, like if you just refuse to acknowledge what they’re going through, and you start saying things like, Well, it’s actually not that bad. Or like, I think it’ll all be okay. Like, look at the right side, like or whatever, or you jump right into the solution. Like, what if we like, go look on indeed and find your new job right now? I need to quit right now. Yeah, yeah. Like it feels. Most people will end up feeling kind of dismissed, like, oh, they don’t actually care about me, because they’re not listening. They’re just trying to like gloss over all these problems. So if you think about it from that lens, I think like, quote, unquote, agitating the pain, if you want to think about it, like empathizing with their pain is really like the more human thing to do.

Meg Casebolt 28:35
Yeah, and I think that in this culture of like toxic positivity, where we cannot acknowledge the fact that people have problems, then they don’t feel seen, which is a really important part of copywriting. So we recognize people’s problems, we acknowledge that they’re going through something, how do we take that next step into like, here’s what the solution is, and here’s how you can act on it. That conversion piece of things?

Krista Walsh 29:03
Yeah, yeah, that’s a great question. So yeah, I think if you like one of the one of the things I recommend people do is like a, it’s basically the pa s formula, but I renamed it to help people like remember to do this with a certain level of intention, which is called State invalidating. So you state the problem, you validate it, which means you kind of tell them, like, it makes sense that you’re feeling this way, like, you know, like, you’re not insane for like having this problem or whatever. And then you you say, it’s sort of like a pivot where you’re like, and I can help you, right? And then this is what I do, like, I help people with you doing this, like experiencing this, and here’s how I do it. Right. So it’s just like a pretty simple gentle pivot would be the simplest way to do that. Yeah, I mean, you can you can do it other ways. You can do it through stories. You can tell your own story about how you maybe you’re somebody like who experienced the pain and then you overcame it through whatever reason, and now you help other people do the same thing. If that’s the case, that’s you could just tell your story. And that’s a great way to introduce your solution in a personal way. One of the other things that I like to do is sort of similar to the state and validate strategy, quote, unquote, but I call it like the whisk the blame away strategy. So you know, if somebody is going through something, and you know that it’s not their fault, because there is something else bigger going on, that they can’t see or that they aren’t aware of, or they’re not allowing themselves to like and blame themselves, right. So you would you would state what they’re going through, you would empathize with it. And then you would say, like, kind of, it’s not your fault. And it’s because of this like societal issue, or like, there’s this big systemic issue, or it’s like subconscious programming, or, you know, whatever it is like, it’s just because like, you couldn’t know this information, like there’s no way it’s not

Meg Casebolt 31:01
a mindset issue. It’s the patriarchy. On a t shirt, the damn patriarchy, it’s capitalism. It’s systemic oppression, it’s systemic racism. Like it’s not always an individual problem with an individual solution. Sometimes it’s a societal problem that has completely fucked with our heads, like, and, and we have been told that it is our fault. So yes, thank you for acknowledging that in both in this conversation and didn’t copy that you’re writing that, like, sometimes it’s not your fault,

Krista Walsh 31:32
right? I mean, it often isn’t. And it really depends on what you’re offering. But if that works, like if that is something you believe, like, there is something going on with my clients, and I see that they’re struggling, and I know that it’s not their fault, because of this other thing, then don’t hesitate to like, say that in your copy and use that as a messaging piece. Because it’s really powerful. If you can give people like this, like mythbuster, as they’re reading a sales page, or your homepage, if they have this moment, where they’re like, Oh, my God, I never thought about that. That’s huge, right? And it sets you up as this really warm hearted authority. And then it makes a lot of sense for you to be like, and here’s, here’s some help for you. Right? Like, here’s how I can help you.

Meg Casebolt 32:14
I’ve really liked that phrase, you just use warm hearted authority. Because I think that we, those of us who are socialized as women, those of us who have been brought up in this culture, it can be hard to identify as an authority because it has that kind of strict authoritarian approach to it of I am the authority. And this is the way that it is without the warmth, without the empathy. And it’s possible to bring into your copy that level of warmth, and also expertise. And they are not a juxtaposition like they can be working together to be empathetic and authority.

Krista Walsh 32:59
Yeah, 100% I believe that. Yeah.

Meg Casebolt 33:03
And it’s hard to strike the balance, too, because so much of copy writing is recognition of what other people are going through, but then you don’t want to come out and be like, Ah, it’s okay. I’ll solve all your problems. There has to be a level of reality in the midst of it.

Krista Walsh 33:21
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, just just check yourself. I think, like, don’t over promise, I think, I think when we get when like business owners, I’m not talking about like copywriters, or marketers here, but like a business owner who’s doing their own marketing or copywriting. And they accidentally, you know, use some manipulative tactics, like maybe they do come across as kicking someone when they’re down, or they blame someone for their mindset issue, or like, whatever it is, that feels maybe not so great for the reader. Or they feel pressured into, like, saying that their program or that their service is going to like save someone’s business or like save their marriage or some like huge promise. I really don’t believe that that’s ever done maliciously by most business owners. I mean, maybe a select few are just sort of malicious, but most people, most people aren’t, it’s just that. I think it comes from a place of like not feeling confident that you can trust your own intuition or, or that you should be checking your own intuition. And instead trusting like all of the things that you see, you know, talking about social media, like all of the advice that gets thrown around, they’re just like the surface level stuff. And so you end up just sort of following that instead of yourself. And that’s where I think people get tripped up. So yeah, I mean, if anyone’s listening, this is like, Oh, my God, I have accidentally done something bad. It’s not your fault. I mean, I’ve done it. I’ve been there like it. It just happens when you’re sort of especially when you’re newer and figuring stuff out.

Meg Casebolt 34:54
Exactly. And I think also something to consider if you’re trying to figure out how you can make a promise that feels at the right scale is figure out what the problem is, and then figure out what the solution is to that problem. Not to all the problems that are out there. So coming back to you know, we were talking about weight loss as an example, or, or the fitness industry in general, where it’s like, the problem might be, you don’t feel comfortable in your body, or like, you don’t want to wear a bikini, the solution isn’t just like, well just wear a bikini, because we have been told that our bodies are unacceptable in this state. And the solution is also not like, well, I’ll just help you lose 50 pounds, right, because even if you lose the 50 pounds, which is what people may think that they want, they still might not feel good in their body, right. So making sure that there’s a correlation between the problem and the solution that you’re offering. And the problem with promise that you’re making, and that there the scope is similar across both of those, like, you can’t solve other people’s problems for them. You can’t solve world hunger by having a kitchen, you know, like, there, we need to make sure that the copy on our pages is at an ethical level based on what we can actually do.

Krista Walsh 36:19
Yeah, yeah, totally. And, yeah, I don’t know if it’s like a thing, that it’s just for women, or it’s for everybody, but I do feel like there is this pressure that like, your business has to save the world in some way or something like as a female founder, I feel that. And I’ve struggled with that a lot myself, you know, like, I’m like, I’m, I’m helping people’s like, websites convert better. Like, I’m not, I’m not doing anything, like profound with my business. But that’s okay. And it would be weird if I tried to claim that it was, you know, like other people probably would be like,

Meg Casebolt 36:52
Yeah, well, I mean, I think we can have impact, without it being the purpose. So you’re able to help people write better copy that connects better with their audience. So it converts better. So they don’t have to work as hard so they can make more money. So they can go, you know, wrote and put that money into their local economy. So that way, they can be a better steward of their own resources, so they can make some smart investments. Like, if you guys who are listening to this, and you’re like, Wait, how do I make sure that the impact of my business is larger than just what I’m actually doing in my business? Go back and listen to the conversations I’ve had with both Tara Newman, and with Helen trema. Tech, because they are both talking about this current sort of like, economy of entrepreneurship, where it’s not necessarily the work that we’re doing directly correlating with our clients having this larger impact. It’s being able to support the economies that, like our local economies by having more money or being able to have other people have more money and more ease in their lives. It’s not always just, I mean, I think there’s some diminishment in what you just said, Christina of like, well, I’m just writing copy. Yes, but you’re writing copy that’s helping other people be found more easily, so that they can support their local economies with money that they’re making more easily, or you’re writing copy, and then you’re circulating that wealth within your community and you’re generating wealth outside of your business and, and the scale and the scope of what we’re doing is sometimes greater than what our businesses are. Our business is just a tiny part of the ecosystem of our financial stewardship. Okay, I’m climbing down for myself pucks now. You can tell that’s, that’s one of those things that I feel pretty strongly about and probably wasn’t what you were expecting. Yeah, so I think that there is something to that, though, of if we can all show up and have messaging that feels empathetic. And it feels warm. But also helps us get clients who are at the right stage of business and whose problems we can help them with. It makes everything else easier in our businesses.

Krista Walsh 39:08
Yeah, yeah, I definitely would agree especially like, oftentimes, people use their website or maybe I think everyone should be using their website, sort of like a source of truth, right? Like a sales tool, a marketing tool, like this place where people can just go in the middle of like, Oh, I heard someone on a podcast, I want to check them out. Oh, I saw someone’s like, LinkedIn posts are interesting. I want to check them out or so or like their YouTube video, I want to check them out. And it’s like a place they can go to, like, get this full story of what someone actually is and what they believe in and what they offer and why that makes their clients lives better. To your point. Right. And I do think that makes everybody’s lives easier, including, including our customers.

Meg Casebolt 39:52
Yeah, and I agree. I sometimes will call it like the hub of your marketing. Yeah, you know, you can have these spokes that are going out to different people. So so you can have the YouTube channel and the LinkedIn posts and the podcast interviews and the email marketing list. But the core of it, what it all leads back to is, here’s your website, which is that source of truth, which is that place that whenever people are looking for information, that’s the place that you want to point them to. Right? Yeah. And eventually, all of those other spokes can hopefully also go there. And then they can go in and out of the spokes. And maybe you find, you know, people find you on YouTube, and they go to your website, and then they follow you on Instagram, they get on your email list. And it can be an ecosystem, but the website can be the hub, where you are your core messaging lives.

Krista Walsh 40:40
Yeah, yeah. And just like, I know, for me, it’s, it’s a big, like, weight off my shoulders to know that there is that hub, as you put it out there kind of doing that work for me, with my website, right? Because I think at a time when I didn’t have a website, or I had one, but I didn’t know what I was doing with it. So I really didn’t actually want people to go there. Because I was like, I don’t think this does like a good job of explaining what I do and why it’s valuable. And I like just hope people don’t actually go there. Then it becomes a struggle where like, you know, like, what can I learn about you like, Sure, you can send people to like a YouTube channel or something, but you have no control really about how people consume your content, or like what videos they hop on or like whatever they do. Also, you have no control over like if YouTube decides to take down your account or something. So yeah, it’s Who’s Who else

Meg Casebolt 41:33
has video shows up on the sidebar? Like, yeah, you’re putting them into, like shark infested waters to an extent, you know, but if you go to the website, then you have that single source of truth. You You are You are the full screen experience. Yes, exactly. In a way that YouTube or even like, you go to a podcasting app, and it’s like, here are the related podcasts like, oh, just stay on my bike, listen to beat dammit. That’s not actually my first podcasting. It can feel like it you know, like, even if you say, go, go check out my LinkedIn page, you hit the home button, and suddenly you’re flooded with everyone else. Your website is the place where you’re the only one talking and there is value in that.

Krista Walsh 42:16
Yeah, completely agree.

Meg Casebolt 42:19
All right. So if people want to find out more about you, and your services, I have a feeling I know where you’re gonna send them, but share, share that information with us.

Krista Walsh 42:29
Yeah, so of course, you can find my one source of truth. My website is Krista Walsh, copywriter.com. And if you do want to find me on socials, I am really in only two places. So LinkedIn is my main one. So that’s just my name, Krista Walsh, you should be able to find me. And then I’m on Instagram, but less so but I kind of show up on stories there. So it’s crystal Walsh, copywriter is my handle.

Meg Casebolt 42:56
Awesome. And we’ll make sure to include that in the show notes. And because your websites, the hub, they can probably also just go to your website and scroll down to the footer and be able to get your email, your Instagram and socials there. Thank you so much for this conversation, Chris. I really appreciate it. Yeah,

Krista Walsh 43:12
thank you so much. Oh, I wanted to highlight one other thing that I forgot, which is my if you go to my website, you can join my email list. And that’s what I would recommend doing if you’re interested in like learning about a lot of the stuff we talked about here about like, empathy based copywriting and website stuff. Because that’s where I put my most of my content versus socials

Meg Casebolt 43:33
that love that. Alright, thank you so much. And guys, go get on that email list. I’m assuming that you’ll take that post or those emails that you’re writing right now and turn them into a nurture sequence so people can read them later on to I won’t just be if they’re on your email list right now. So thank you so, so much for being here today.

Krista Walsh 43:49
Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I had a really good time.

Meg Casebolt 43:54
Thank you so much for listening to the social slowdown podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe or come on over to social slowdown.com and sign up for our email list so you never miss an episode. We’d also love if you could write a review to help other small business owners find the show you can head over to social slowdown.com/review Or grab that link in our show notes for easy access. We’ll be back soon with more tips to help you market your business without being beholden to social media Talk to you then.

Please forgive any typos as this transcript was automatically generated by otter.ai.