I’m welcoming Lacy Boggs back for this week’s episode! In this episode, Lacy and I talk about:

  • How to ensure you’re creating content for everyone 
  • How everyone’s customer journey is different – and understanding the importance of meeting people at whichever stage they’re at
  • Creating robust nurture sequences for people who maybe aren’t ready to buy your product or service yet

Liked this episode? Check out some of our other podcast episodes with Lacy!

Read the full transcript

Meg Casebolt 0:01
You’re listening to social slowdown a podcast for entrepreneurs and micro businesses looking for sustainable marketing strategies without being dependent on social media. Social media is a double edged sword. It’s a wonderful way to stay connected. But it also can feel like an addictive obligation. And it’s even more complex for businesses, your audience might be right there, but you’ve got to fight with algorithms to maybe be seen by them. So whether you want to abandon social media altogether, or you just want to take a month off, it’s possible to have a thriving business without being dependent on social media. This podcast is all about finding creative, sustainable ways to engage with your audience without needing to lip sync, send a cold DMS, run ads or be available 24/7. Let’s get started. Hey, y’all happy summer is my favorite season of the year. And where I live in upstate New York, it lasts about five minutes. So I’ve decided to take some time off from creating content in order to really enjoy as much time away from my keyboard as humanly possible. But I didn’t want to just leave you high and dry for the next three months. So we’ve got a fun podcast plan here a little bit. First Search, we’re all about making evergreen marketing assets really work for you long term. So this summer, we are practicing what we preach. And we’re repurposing something that we created last year, releasing it out to the public for the first time. So last year, we ran an event called SEO summer camp, which focused on creating efficient content marketing systems. And as part of summer camp, I interviewed 15 of my fellow business owners all about their tips for planning strategic content and creating engaging content consistently, and utilizing that same content across multiple channels like YouTube or podcasts in order to grow their audience. So over the next nine or so weeks, you’ll hear those interviews here on the podcast. Some of them might be slightly out of date, but we still think they’re incredibly valuable resources. And we did not want to limit their reach by only having them available to the people who were involved in last year’s event. So you may notice that I start most of the interviews with something like hey, summer campers, and then I give recommendations based on what was happening in the community and the live events we are running. That’s why I wanted to give some context in this introduction. So you’re not just like, What the heck is she talking about. And because we are spending this summer in our podcast talking all about content marketing systems and creating more efficiently, I want to tell you about something that we’re going to be launching at the end of this summer, we’re going to be creating a new digital product, I am tentatively calling it the SEO content Maximizer it may change names by the time we actually release it. We will be sharing all of the love it for search templates and processes and systems that we use to turn every podcast and every YouTube video into its own blog and newsletter and social media content. To give some context in about six to eight hours a week, our team produces one YouTube video, a podcast, two blog posts, a newsletter and five social media posts, you obviously would not need to do that much as a small business owner, we’re you know, we’ve been doing this for a long time we’ve created these solid content marketing systems. But we’ve got this process so locked down that we want to share that with you so that it will be easier for you to make more strategic content in less time. If you’re interested in hearing about that new content Maximizer product when it’s ready, head over to love it for search.com/maximize Sign up for the waitlist. And you’ll be the first to know when we’re ready for beta testers. And if you’re listening to this in the future, you can head to that and we’ll redirect it to where you can find out more about that product. Alright, so there’s the context as to what you’re hearing this summer and why. Without further ado, let’s get started with the interview. Alright, campers, I am here with Lacey Boggs Lacey and I have been friends for many years I was her graphic designer I and as she was growing her, her content marketing agency. And in that process, I learned so much about content marketing, because I was creating the graphics for her and then reading the blog posts. So I knew what graphics to create. And she became sort of my mentor in all things content marketing and how to write as a business. So it made perfect sense to bring Lacey in here and have her talk directly to you instead of just the trickle down knowledge. The Keynesians content marketing plan about you know, how do you figure out what to write and how do you explain how do you create for different audiences or different levels of awareness and so I will just kind of open the floor to you Lacey and wherever you want to take the conversation that is cool with me.

Lacy Boggs 4:55
Cool. Sounds great. I want to tell you first though, that I did grab my son hat and then I just I’ve heard that was kind of ridiculous. What do I say? It says Do Not Disturb summer, but then I decided for summer camp. That’s what I was thinking. I thought it would be, you know, in Persona. But I do like

Meg Casebolt 5:13
the cherries, though.

Lacy Boggs 5:14
Thank you. Very cute. So, yes. So when we’re talking about content, as you mentioned, you know, your your people are not all at the same place when they find you. And especially not if you’re doing SEO, right, because they may be searching for different things, which means they have different levels of awareness when they get to your content. And so what we have to be aware of ourselves is, who are we writing for? And then what’s the next step they’re going to take after they consume that content. And I think sometimes that second part people forget. But it’s important that you have to have a path, you’re gonna lead them on, right with your content. So for example, Meg, I know that a lot of times you will tell people, okay, nobody’s searching for whatever. I’m trying to think of a good example, nobody’s searching for like life coaching, like, I need to actualize myself. And you know, right, nobody wakes up at 3am saying, How do I self actualized? Or at least most people don’t. And so even if that’s what you do, as a life coach, you might have to write your SEO content about something else, right, something adjacent, where you can then educate people along that path. So you might say, Why do I feel crappy all the time? Or, you know, like, there might be other things that people are googling, right? And so when that’s the case, they are unaware of their true problems. So if we’re pretending that their true problem is that they need to self actualize? They’re not aware of that yet. So we need to educate them through content. That Oh, the reason you feel crappy is you need to self actualize, right? So I’m totally just making this up. But you can see that you can see that hopefully see the progression here. Right. And

Meg Casebolt 6:59
I think one of the things that we Lacey and I actually work with a few coaches, we’ve had this conversation with where they use coaching language, and they’ll say, people have blocks, they’re self sabotaging. They’re what are the phrases that the coaches use specifically, you know, they’re, they have the imposter syndrome, they, they’re using language that some of their audience is familiar with, some of them may come in and say, Yeah, I do have kind of an emotional block that’s preventing me from growing my business or entering into a relationship. But some of them don’t use the term, I have a block. And if you don’t use that term, you can’t find that term, you can’t help people who don’t know they have that.

Lacy Boggs 7:41
Right. So those two people, the person who understands what an emotional block is, and the person who doesn’t aren’t two different levels of awareness on that coach’s particular spectrum, right. So we have to create content for both of those people. And then the other half of that is like if you have somebody who’s unaware who comes in and they don’t know what an emotional block is, we need to move them along, we need to educate them through our content. So we have to know what the next step is for them. So even if you’re writing an SEO piece, that’s something they’re Googling, which isn’t exactly what you do, right, you have to create the path for them to then whether it’s like, click here to read more, get on my email list, Download This eBook, whatever it is, but you have to give them some of that, what’s the next step? How do they move along that spectrum to become more aware?

Meg Casebolt 8:28
Yeah, there’s a metaphor you’ve used a couple of times that sticks with me every time where it’s like, it’s stepping stones across a lake, right? You know, and so you people are trying to get, or you’re trying to get them from A to B, but you don’t expect them to just leap over a lake. Right? They’re not that German Shepherd in the meme that can somehow make that leap from one place to another, you have to take them step by step by step through that process.

Lacy Boggs 8:53
And if you don’t, they’re gonna fall in the lake and disappear, right? That’s kind of the this metaphor is like, imagine your person is on one side and the sail is on the other. If you don’t have enough rocks, they’re gonna get frustrated and leave. If you don’t have them in a nice sequential order, it’s gonna be much harder, right? And they’re gonna fall in the lake and wash away and you’ll never see them again. So yeah, like, think of your content as putting those rocks in the river, appropriately spaced big enough that they can land on right and in the right order, so they can make that journey with you easily.

Meg Casebolt 9:27
Yeah, I like that too. Because it’s like, there’s the sail on one side of the lake. But then there are multiple places that people can enter to get better and, and some people may be closer or farther away from that endpoint, depending on where they’re entering the conversation.

Lacy Boggs 9:41
Right? Right. It’s a nice way to think of it very visually. Other than, you know, putting your customers in the water, it’s a nice metaphor.

Meg Casebolt 9:49
Don’t drown your customers, please. And then when do you think is the right time to transfer people from Um, you’re kind of passively reading what I’ve previously created to Hey, come get on my email list or book a call with me? How does that transition work in your mind? Or even by this thing? Right? Like that conversion point, when do you feel like people are ready for that? And how do you prepare them for that?

Lacy Boggs 10:19
Yeah, so so that’s really going to depend a lot on your business model, right, and also where they’re coming in. So the person who’s coming in who’s completely solution aware and is looking for a solution, and they’re comparing different solutions, they may be ready to buy, right? So that’s the kind of content where you want to put a book a call or a Buy Now button. If they’re further back on the spectrum, if they’re completely unaware, like we were just talking about putting a buy, buy, buy now button is not going to work as well. Right? So we need to continue. That’s where we need them to have a read more, or here’s some other resources, or get on my list or follow me on Facebook, right? It’s a series of small yeses leading to the bigger Yes. And the further away they are from the sale on that spectrum. I’m keep drawing it with my hand, but the further away they are from making the sale, the more little yeses you’re gonna need to get before you ask for the big yes. Right. So again, and this also depends on what you’re selling, if you’re selling a $4 widget, and they they could let be completely unaware land on your webpage, say, Yes, that’s what I need and buy it, right. Like the customer journey is much shorter, when there’s less involved, right, when there’s less risk involved. But if you’re selling a $10,000 coaching package, there’s much more perceived risk for most people involved in that. And so you’re gonna have to have lots more little yeses. So that when you ask for the big yes, they’re ready to say it right. And so little yeses in this case, might be reading more content, getting on your email list following you on social media, like it could be lots of different things, taking a quiz, you know, all those different things or asking them for something. And then they’re saying yes, to move forward along that customer journey.

Meg Casebolt 12:09
I love that. I like the idea of a little yeses, adding up to a big Yes. You said earlier, like you have SEO content that you’re creating, which implies that some content is SEO content and some content isn’t. Tell me a little more about that, and how that works into a larger content strategy that isn’t only for discovery purposes.

Lacy Boggs 12:31
Right. So that’s the key word right? Discovery. So you have to decide what your content is supposed to do. Right? So there are some people for whom the blog is not aimed at the unaware reader, whether they’ve done it by design or not, right. It’s aimed at somebody further along that spectrum. And so that’s not necessarily for discovery. I would say that a lot. In a lot of cases, my blog is not necessarily designed for discovery, right? I’m speaking I’m preaching to the choir in some senses, right? I’m speaking to people who already know who I am and what I do. But when I write pieces that are more that are broader that are that are designed to speak to that unaware person, that’s when I might be much more cognizant about optimizing for SEO, much more cognizant about where I promote it, you know, putting it places like medium or other Discovery Channels where it can work can get discovered. But that’s for a different purpose, right? It’s a different type of content. It’s a different purpose. So just think about the fact that like, somebody said this to me recently, they were like, Oh, so it’s kind of like how you make friends. I’m just like, it’s 100% How you make friends. So like, if you meet somebody at a party, you’re gonna have different conversations with them, and you’re gonna have make different invitations to them than you would your bestie you’ve known since kindergarten, right? Like there’s, there’s a very different style of communicating, and you have to kind of warm up that friendship. Maybe, you know, you have sort of high level conversations at the party. And then it’s like, well, would you like to go get coffee sometime? Oh, yes, I would. And then coffee, maybe it gets a little deeper? Oh, would you like to go see a movie, you know what I’m saying? It’s like, your friendships evolve over time. But you’re not necessarily going to tell them your deepest, darkest secrets. When you meet somebody at the party at a party unless you’re like super drunk or something, right? So in a perfect world, that’s how content works to you’re going to have a different conversation with people that are just finding you that are just discovering you, then you are with the people in your inner circle who’ve been following you for a long time. And so sometimes that’s outward facing content, and sometimes it’s more inward facing so what I mean by that is like, blog content tends to be those unaware or problem where people that are the first couple of stages on the customer journey. And then once they get on your email list once they’re in like, I don’t know, your private Facebook group, or whatever it is. That’s more inward facing content. And that’s where it’s more the solution aware of the aware of you where you’re actually making a call to action to work with you. Right?

Meg Casebolt 15:09
Yeah. And you know, you’re moving along that process. The term used for this a lot in email marketing is your nurture sequence. So you can start to take those steps and say, Let’s go for a coffee. Let’s go for a movie. And before you say, you know, let’s move in together to get married. Yeah. I don’t know you were using friendships. So I didn’t want to live directly there. I just, I just signed the lease on a peel box with a friend. So we are getting pretty serious over here. When we say business besties we like Cher, a male.

Lacy Boggs 15:44
And it’s pretty serious. Yeah.

Meg Casebolt 15:47
She’s, she’s out 100 bucks if I bail on her watch out world.

Lacy Boggs 15:54
Like that could ruin a friendship right there. So yeah. And I kind of like to think of it as like, Well, I mean, you think of it friends circles, but you can think of it as circles like think of concentric circles, right? Like a target. And the people on the outside don’t even know you. They haven’t, they haven’t been introduced to you yet. And then as they come in, they get more and more into your inner circle. And then the bullseye in the middle is people who, who do business with you? Who are your clients or customers? And so the object is always to move people to whatever that next circle is of intimacy, if you will. Yeah. And then

Meg Casebolt 16:31
SEO is just getting people to pick up a dart.

Lacy Boggs 16:34
Great. I love it. Yes. Right. And so you have to have content that’s designed for those people, right? Because they’re not necessarily ready for the bullseye.

Meg Casebolt 16:46
Yeah. Sometimes people need more time to learn from you. And I think also something that people forget sometimes is that some of your clients are tortoises and some of your clients are hairs, there are going to be people who come to my website and buy from me in the first five minutes, maybe because I said something that clicked maybe because they just know that they need it, maybe they did get a referral. So they’re not entirely cold. But they know enough about me that they trust me, but they don’t need that full nurture sequence. And so it’s important to give them the chance if they are ready to take whatever that next step is to take those little yeses or the big yes, to let me know what the biggest is that you’re leading up to even.

Lacy Boggs 17:27
Okay, so can we talk for a second here about the tendency for marketers to hold people hostage in sequences?

Meg Casebolt 17:35
Please, I hate that. Sometimes I just want to get like, let me give you money, let me give you money.

Lacy Boggs 17:40
Right. And so this is actually a problem I see. Because we’ve been taught that we have to have these complicated funnels or these complicated nurture sequences, especially this is especially true with courses. But it’s not only courses. And so what happens is somebody like like, let’s use a course, as an example, somebody knows you’re going to offer a course, they’re ready to buy it, they’ve been thinking about it for a while. But then instead of letting them buy it, you make them go through whatever their launch sequence is, and then 15 emails and then a webinar, and then maybe you can give them money. And it’s very frustrating. It’s the same feeling. It’s like when you land on a sales page, and you have to scroll for three days just to find out what the prices and then

Meg Casebolt 18:22
you have to click through to see it in your cart to find out what it is. And then you do the math to be like, well, if it’s a payment plan, I guess I have this much. And

Lacy Boggs 18:29
yeah, this is hostage marketing. We are holding people hostage now their psychological reasons for it. But and I think we’re moving to a place especially in b2b marketing, but somewhat in b2c as well, where people are just sick of it, they’ve seen it, they know it, they know what’s coming, they know there’s going to be a webinar, they know there’s going to be a pitch, they know there’s going to be three videos, whatever it is, right? And they just want to, they just want to buy from you. And if you make it hard, they’re gonna get frustrated and leave. And so this is true, too. When you have a service more like you and I do neg. Like, if you make them jump through too many hoops. They’re not gonna they’re not gonna stay with you, right? So there’s this very fine balance between offering them the opportunity to learn more, and also offering somebody the chance to jump like I’m already here. Let me jump ahead, right. I’m thinking

Meg Casebolt 19:23
I have this vision of Chutes and Ladders right now. Yeah. It’s like they’re gonna jump from like 20 to 80. Or they’re gonna like, like all over your website. They’re going to be in your emails for a while. Eventually, we want to get everyone to 100. But people are not going to get there.

Lacy Boggs 19:40
Well, for some people, like I tend to have people who work with me sometimes have a very long sales cycle. I’ve had people tell me like, you’ve been on my vision board for three years. Like what? Or I’ve been on. I had a woman tell me I started running Facebook ads this last year, and she was like, I joined your list eight years ago. I’ve been getting your eat emails since you know, whatever. And I’m like, Damn girl. That’s a serious long sales cycle. But she was finally ready to work with us, you know. And that’s fine. I’m happy about it. But there are also people who like Google me get on the Get on the thing. And they’re like, I’m ready to go. So they don’t want to spend time on your email list. You know, learning about knee or whatever they’re ready to go. So we have to give people those Chutes and Ladders as opportunities. And like I said, it’s kind of a, it’s kind of a balancing act between figuring out and this is something you can actually, you can look at your customers in your own business and say, what is the average? How long does the average person need to be in my world, before they buy from me? It’s a little easier to do that when you have like a product or a course or something. But it is something you can look at when you have the right email stats and say, oh, okay, so on average, people need to be with me for six months. That means I need a pretty robust nurture sequence. before they’re ready to buy.

Meg Casebolt 21:01
I was actually just talking about something similar to Kyla who’s another one of our trainers this month, our camp counselor, sorry. And she was saying that when she was a web designer, she would often ask people during her onboarding process, so after they had committed as she was doing sort of like, what, what’s your business? What are we going to work on together those questions, she would say, have you gone through any major life changes lately, because often, when people have some sort of business growth, or major life change, that’s when they’re willing to invest. And so recognizing those connections with people recognizing those patterns, maybe Lacey for you, it’s like, oh, I just launched this new coaching program. And now we need to consistently get people in, or, you know, I am about to launch a website, which often comes with like, oh, and my kids are moving out of my house, or oh, I just hit a money milestone with my business or, you know, something often triggers those decisions. They may be internal or external, they may be business or personal. But knowing that sometimes people will hang around for a while, and they have a minimum monthly income that they want to hit before they start working with us. Or they want to wait until their school year starts or knowing kind of what is typical for your clients. And also knowing that you know, you and I are we don’t have urgent services, like our wait isn’t going anywhere. But there are people who are watching this, who are sleep coaches, and it’s like the baby’s going to grow out of sleep coaching within a year, hopefully, please, please do not sleep. So knowing that we have that tight window, we need to push people to action a little bit faster. If you have a tighter window that you need to meet people. And if you’re a wedding planner, then people finding you a month after they get married, that’s not going to help you.

Lacy Boggs 22:54
And you need a faster, you need to move them along that that spectrum more quickly, right? So for example, we’ve been testing in my business, a nurture sequence that actually goes out over I want to say it’s 48 days at this point. So after somebody signs up for my freebie, we do it on a Fibonacci sequence. So the amount of the number of times you

Meg Casebolt 23:19
nerd I love this so much. That’s like 112358 13. Okay. I’m trying to remember probably like sixth grade geometry, what the Fibonacci sequence is, yeah, why what’s one, then the is two, and then one plus two is three, and then two plus three is five. And then three plus five is asynchronous. People aren’t like Fibonacci,

Lacy Boggs 23:40
it keeps double the amount of time between emails every time. So you send it on day one, day two, day four, day eight, day 16, whatever, so that they’re not

Meg Casebolt 23:50
feminazis sequence. Okay, well,

Lacy Boggs 23:54
that’s what that’s the way Mine is set up. But you could set it up Fibonacci too. But basically just increasing the space between emails every time the the idea being that you’re not overwhelming people. But you’re also staying top of mind. But now if you’re asleep coach or a wedding planner, or tax professional, somebody who’s got a deadline with their service, you don’t want to do that. You don’t want to nurture sequences that takes 48 days you want like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, let me let me like nurture you and

Meg Casebolt 24:22
educate, I will nurture

Lacy Boggs 24:25
nurture the hell out to you. But you need to educate them quickly so they can make a decision so that they can meet their own deadline, right.

Meg Casebolt 24:33
Yeah, and I think also as this applies to search engine optimization, it’s like imagine somebody just got engaged you want to catch them in that first kind of unaware space if at all possible or maybe problem aware, but by the time they get to solution aware in our in our spectrum, I don’t know if we ever went through and to find that. So the stages are unaware problem aware solution aware aware of you, and then you know they finally hopefully buy from you at that point. So a graphic if it’s helpful, that would be good. We’ll include that in the notes here. But as they’re going through that you want to catch people as soon as possible, like, hours after they get engaged, what are the things that they’re searching for so that you can swoop in, help them find their venue, help them find their caterer or help them find all those things? Because if you catch them at I have my venue and my cater and I just need a DJ, then you’re not going to get as much money for the client because they’ve already done all the work.

Lacy Boggs 25:30
And so that’s where SEO can be super important, because what are people googling at that point? Do I need a wedding planner? How much does a wedding planner cost? Well,

Meg Casebolt 25:39
the way that I don’t know if you and I met through Tara or if we just both have worked with Tara But Tara tells the story about saying I just want to elope in Glacier Canyon Park and she Googled elope glacier canyon or elopement photographer, maybe glacier Canyon Park. And then from there, the entire wedding came together because her photographer was like, Alright, here’s your wedding planner, here’s your officiant, you know, like, how to do it. You don’t even need to be there anymore. If you get that first keyword, then the rest of it can come from there as somebody who planned a wedding from 2500 miles away. I also know that but terrorists stories clearer.

Lacy Boggs 26:18
But when you can figure out that very specific thing that they’re asking, yeah, you can swoop in and be the hero. But you have to have the content, right? You have to have that piece of content. And then you also have to give them the information they need to say yes to you, right,

Meg Casebolt 26:33
someone can Google elopement, Glacier Canyon Park and only get pictures? Yes. Or only get here

Lacy Boggs 26:38
today. It could take them to your let’s pretend it could take them to the photographer’s website. They say yes, I do this. But if that’s it, there’s there’s no there’s no like call to action. There’s no. If it says on the other hand, yes, I do this and I can recommend I can tell you exactly how to do it. What permits you need, who to hire how to do that? Then you’re like, Oh, yes, that’s what I need.

Meg Casebolt 27:01
Book. Right? What are all the questions, you can get them there with that initial keyword, but then thinking about what are all the questions, they’re going to need answers, what are all the objections that are going to pop up?

Lacy Boggs 27:11
And make them give you their email address? Or their credit card? or credit card? Right? What is the what is the thing they need to know? And this is something I this is sort of shorthand sometimes for when people are like, what should my freebie be? It’s a what do they need to know right before they say yes to doing business with you. And that is what your freebie should be like whatever it is, if they need to overcome a mindset problem, if they need actual information about something, if they need to do something to be ready to work with you, then that’s what your freebie should help them. Okay, so

Meg Casebolt 27:45
what’s your freebie right now? I actually don’t know the answer to this.

Lacy Boggs 27:49
So try and make a long story short, I used to have a zillion freebies, I probably got 50 something on my website. Yeah.

Meg Casebolt 27:57
I don’t remember that. GDPR nightmare. Right. Thank

Lacy Boggs 28:00
you. Yes. But what was happening was I was getting di wires because I was telling them how to do things and providing worksheets and saying, and then they were like, Great, I’m gonna go do it myself when I sell done for you services. So now my main opt in is our case studies. I have a beautiful case study document put together. Because I figure if people are interested in downloading case studies, they want to know what it’s like to work with me. And so that’s kind of I was like, what do they need to know right before they work with me, they need to know what I can do for them. They need to know what success I’ve had before now. And so that’s what we do.

Meg Casebolt 28:33
I love that. Yeah. Well, let’s, let’s wrap this up. Do you have any last things that you’re thinking about? Anything that you want to share?

Lacy Boggs 28:42
Oh, my God, we could talk forever. I know.

Meg Casebolt 28:46
But I also promise people we’d stick to 30 minutes.

Lacy Boggs 28:49
Yeah, I mean, I think just keeping in mind where people are coming into what is your content supposed to do? And this could be different for each piece of content you create, but it also could just be different for each channel, you know, think about which which circle? Are you reaching with each channel? And what’s the next stage? How is this piece of content going to move them to the next stage of awareness? Because that’s really what you’re trying to do. If you’re just attracting unaware people, but then you’re not moving them to the next stage. It’s actually not going to help you so much. They’re going to be cool. Thanks. And hit backspace, right. So you actually need to think what is the next step they’re going to do? How am I gonna move them along that little pass?

Meg Casebolt 29:30
I love that. Well, thank you so much for your time today. I will let you go but really appreciate it and I’ll talk to you soon. Thank you so much for listening to the social slowdown podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe or come on over to social slowdown.com and sign up for our email lists. You never miss an episode. We’d also love if you could write a review to help other small business owners find the show you can head over to social slowdown.com/review Or grab that link in our show notes for easy access. We’ll be back soon with more tips to help you market your business without being beholden to social media Talk to you then.

Please forgive any typos as this transcript was automatically generated by otter.ai.

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