Do you hear the word “networking” and simply roll your eyes? Well in today’s episode, Lindsay Johnson and I have a great conversation that’s gonna change the way you think about networking. We talk about radically connecting with others – and what people THINK “networking” is, versus what it ACTUALLY is.
In this episode:

  • What does “networking” really mean in 2023 and what can it look like for you, as an entrepreneur?
  • How and why Lindsay uses consent-based strategies
  • Connecting organically and figuring out who you really click with and want to work with
  • TikTok for networking?

Lindsay Johnson, aka The Radical Connector, has been teaching first-time entrepreneurs how to get clients and make money in their businesses for over 20 years. Lindsay’s an entrepreneurship nerd and holistic business strategist who’s obsessed with teaching service-based entrepreneurs and content creators business skills and strategies for turning their brilliance into a profitable business by working less and playing more. 

Born into a family of entrepreneurs, Lindsay watched as their family worked themselves into the ground and promised themselves they’d find a better way to build a business.

Lindsay’s two online business programs, blog, YouTube channel, Work Less Play More Podcast, and free Facebook group, Rad Connectors, teach overwhelmed entrepreneurs practical, consent-based marketing and sales skills so they can use their business as a tool to build the life of their dreams, change the world, and finally ditch their desks and go have a life!

Read the full transcript

Lindsay Johnson 0:00
And the thing is, is that and this is just rules for networking in general, right, don’t go in with an agenda to make something happen. Go in with a curiosity to see where there’s alignment and common connection and sharing a laugh, and collaboration, opportunities, referrals, those things come very organically, when you are connecting authentically with somebody.

Meg Casebolt 0:25
You’re listening to social slowdown a podcast for entrepreneurs and micro businesses looking for sustainable marketing strategies without being dependent on social media. Social media is a double edged sword. It’s a wonderful way to stay connected. But it also can feel like an addictive obligation. And it’s even more complex for businesses, your audience might be right there, but you’ve got to fight with algorithms to maybe be seen by them. So whether you want to abandon social media altogether, or you just want to take a month off, it’s possible to have a thriving business without being dependent on social media. This podcast is all about finding creative, sustainable ways to engage with your audience without needing to lipsync send to cold DMS, run ads or be available 24/7. Let’s get started. Hello, and welcome to the social slowdown Podcast. I’m so excited to have you all here today. Today. I have Lindsey from the radical connector. Lindsay, thank you so much for being here with me today.

Lindsay Johnson 1:23
I am super jazzed to be here and talking. Let’s get into it.

Meg Casebolt 1:29
Awesome. So talk to me about the idea behind the radical connector because like the brand name is so clear to me about what it is that you do. And I just kind of want to give people an overview of your approach to the world.

Lindsay Johnson 1:44
Well, it’s actually interesting. So I’m a marketing and sales coach. That’s what I do, right? Like I teach entrepreneurs and content creators, how the heck to get clients and I teach consent based strategies. So how are you co creating the sales journey, the marketing process in a way that is ethical and consent based. But what’s really interesting is the connector part for me, it’s so much about like connecting you to yourself connecting you to your business connecting you to others connecting your business to the world, like connect, connect, connect, this is my you know, connecting is my love language. And so it’s funny, because people will like literally daily will say to me, verbatim Wow, you really are the radical connector, like, daily, because I’m constantly making like connections for folks. And it is, I don’t know, it’s what makes the world go round. And what is what makes your business thrive.

Meg Casebolt 2:47
Yeah, and I don’t think you know, I think a lot of times people think of like funnels or pipelines or things that are one direction, and this is the only way that things can happen. Whereas I really like to think of marketing more as like an ecosystem of who do you know, and who’s talking to whom and what do you feel about this? And how does this thing play into this thing, and people explore it, like, people are not books moving from through all in the same order. It’s like, this is a choose your own adventure novel, everything that we’re doing. So trying to figure out what are those connections? And how can we talk to other people in a way that resonates can be really difficult to start to dig into?

Lindsay Johnson 3:25
Well, and the whole, like, the whole journey, when I teach folks is that marketing is just the way that you communicate with people that want to know you exist, right? That’s it. And I teach very much in attraction marketing perspective. So who are the people who are already looking for someone like you with money in hand, that’s where you want to go connect with stop trying to convince people that don’t need it, don’t want it actually, here’s the thing that’s really interesting. A lot of my clients a lot of entrepreneurs live in this this superhero complex world where they truly believe everyone needs what they’ve got. And so that’s one of the first shifts I help folks makes it’s not about who needs it, it’s about who wants it. Those are the people that you want to talk to stop trying to convince the ones that need it because I’m sure everyone needs it. Who are the people that are wanting it and already looking for it when people are like I heard someone say like, you should be chasing nose getting as many nose as you can because those lead to yeses and I’m very critical of that I disagree a waste of time, right? I’m like no if you’re getting lots of nose you are talking to the wrong people or you are offering the wrong thing or you are charging the wrong price or your messaging is off. I kind of those are the four the four you’re messing up pillars and so no don’t chase the no friends don’t chase the No listen. noser okay noes are okay it’s just a it’s it’s pointing you in the in the direction of something is wrong in your marketing and sales process your strategy But you shouldn’t be getting 30 nose every time you do a call with somebody, friends know you’re doing something wrong back up, revisit

Meg Casebolt 5:07
tweak. I had somebody recently on a podcast asked me, How do you convince people that they need to get off social media? And I said, I don’t have to by the time they find me, they’re ready, and then they just get to have a conversation about it. And I think that that’s part of it is figuring out what that readiness level is figuring out what are the things that people already have tried? What do they already know? What do they already desire, by the time they get to you? It’s not your job. I mean, like, maybe if we had gazillion dollar budgets, we could be in charge of these things. But as small businesses, we don’t have to have, you know, millions of clients or millions of marketing dollars, we can just tap into problems that already exist that we can solve. Yes, absolutely. Yes. And so how do you get your clients Lindsay? Oh,

Lindsay Johnson 5:55
many ways. I have many, many doorways into my world. A lot of my business comes through referral. That is again, connecting

Meg Casebolt 6:06
like 0% No surprise to me.

Lindsay Johnson 6:10
Knocking Well, I and I, it’s funny because my business when I very, very first started my business, it was actually called the networking boutique way back in the day. And I wanted to really show entrepreneurs how to grow so much faster by networking by focusing on networking, a funny story, you know, what entrepreneurs don’t care about? Someone that teaches them how to network.

Meg Casebolt 6:34
Networking feels like a swear word to us, especially those people who are like a little bit more introverted, and they don’t want to have to go like drink a thing of wine and put on a name tag and have to answer the same question about like, Well, what do you do? And like elevator speech? Like, no, that’s not what networking is. But that’s what we think of just like, the Chamber of Commerce is holding a networking in your BNI group, you know, I’ve done it, I’ve done it, but I hated it. And I’m an extrovert, and I have no problem talking to a brick wall. God, it’s the worst.

Lindsay Johnson 7:07
Is Listen, I am a person who networks and hates networking events. Yes, be and I like no, no. And don’t be

Meg Casebolt 7:17
an event to like, we have. No, this works because we’ve networked together, but it’s still it’s still awkward to have to do that, like approach a stranger in a big room thing.

Lindsay Johnson 7:27
Here’s the thing we didn’t meet at a networking event, though. We met at like a fun, cool weekend conference thing, right? Like, to me that wasn’t a getting a stuffy suit, you know, carrying around a cheese plate and like, you know what I mean? Like, what do you do? What are you? No, no, no, no, no. And there were no icebreakers.

Meg Casebolt 7:44
There were no trust balls.

Lindsay Johnson 7:48
Do you know, can I tell you okay. No, I get the point of icebreakers. But like time and place, time and place. I remember being at this, this event, it wasn’t it was like an event. It wasn’t a networking event. It was like a it was entrepreneurs. But it was like a, it was like a Women’s Day panel or something was really a really awesome event. And like the room is abuzz with people talking and connecting and like just making it happen. And then somebody interrupts to do an icebreaker. And it’s like, now we’re all awkwardly standing and listening to instructions. And then like trying to like go find someone who’s wearing the same color top, we’re

Meg Casebolt 8:24
wearing like a bingo board. Right?

Lindsay Johnson 8:26
I’m like, I was just having a really quick so like, icebreakers are good if you’re if you really have a room of people who really are are sticking to the wall and not engaging but my goodness, when the room was hopping, let it hop. But yes, I was gonna say that I was gonna say that the whole idea and that’s why I sort of use the word connecting and networking interchangeably, because networking, it just makes people’s skin crawl. And and the reality is, is the truth of it is when you’re networking and or connecting, if, like, effectively with people you genuinely like and genuinely build, like I just say networking is just turning strangers into friends. Like truly, that’s all it is. Turning business strangers into business friends and nurturing those relationships over time. That’s all it is. And so when you spend, like, especially if you’re new in business, if you spend those first three, five years really working on your connections, you will never want for business, and not just clients and customers but opportunities. Hey, I’m on this podcast because I was talking with someone else like do you know Meg, oh, my god do know mag. And we never did connect. We met we never did actually connect anything. And then boom, I’m on a podcast. Like, the opportunities that come from your connections are also incredible. And so that’s yeah, a lot of my business comes from like 1000s of dollars every month comes in from people that I met the oh six years ago, who we have a professional NFL and a fun social friendship and business flies.

Meg Casebolt 9:56
And I like how he’s like professional and fun business. Yeah, right. You know, I think sometimes people feel like, Oh, I’m gonna reach out to people for a coffee chat. And then we’re going to talk about our businesses. And then we’re going to talk about opportunities where we can collaborate, but like, No, I think I’ve made more friends by like talking about novels, I’m reading or complaining about a fat phobia. Talking about my kids, and like, just being human with another human makes you memorable makes you and then you know, if business shows up, cool. But you don’t have to be so stuffy all the time. And I and I feel like here’s where, like some of this networking rules, and like patriarchal rules about what business is supposed to be like, and how you’re supposed to behave if you’re gonna be professional. And like this corporate, Bleich trickle down, you know, wear the suit and shake the hand with this level of firmness.

Lindsay Johnson 10:57
Yeah, 123 Paul’s.

Meg Casebolt 11:02
And there are places there are environments in which that kind of behavior is still the norm, but in the world, that you and I are living in the world that most of our listeners are living in. And like, that’s not really how we expect things to be anymore.

Lindsay Johnson 11:16
No, well, not in the entrepreneurial world in our type of entrepreneurship. You know, and especially not like post pandemic, like, things have gotten so much more casual. You know, even though like, when I think of the people that I connect with, and I rate down to the people that I bring on as clients, I very much have a rule. Could I spend a week or a weekend at the beach with this person? Would I invite them to my birthday party? You know? And if the answer is no,

Meg Casebolt 11:48
there are times when I call that our boozy brunch rule like she and I have had so many boozy brunches together over the years that were like, if we wouldn’t invite them to boozy brunch. They’re not there.

Lindsay Johnson 11:58
Yet, because you know what? The world is full of freaking amazing people. What are we doing spending time with people that make our skin crawl? Like I had? I had a call with somebody. And she was pretty aggressive. And she one of the questions and I think I made a tick tock on this, like, one of the quickest ways to make sure I never worked with you is to ask me the question. So Lindsay, tell me what you can do for me. Hi. Not a damn thing. Like the entitlement. Anyways, so there was there was like Red flag number one. And then another point, she goes Euro Ze, right. Because I’m non binary. You’re they right. And then she went into some like, weird, random questions about that. And I was like, Wow, talk about to humanizing. And I was like, number two. And I’m like, honestly, Red flag number one is all I need. But there’s just this like this. It’s so important. When we’re in business, and we are connecting for business buddies, we are connecting for collaborating, connecting for clients, it needs to be a fit from both directions. And if those red flags are going off, it’s like a Get me off this call, you know, have a good life. I don’t ever want to talk to you. Again, this was a terrible conversation. And like, I think that’s the thing a lot of people are afraid to do is to is to say, No, I think entrepreneurs, or people in general, are so caught up in making sure other people like them, that they stop, don’t stop and ask, Do I like that person? Do I want to spend time with this person?

Meg Casebolt 13:28
Yeah, and I think the people pleasing is really strong to the point that we start to diminish or decrease our own instinctual, like value driven systems of like, my gut is telling me I shouldn’t take this client. My gut is telling me this isn’t a good move. But like on paper, it looks good. Right? And I think especially those of us who have been socialized, as women are told that like, well, that’s not really a way to make a business decision. We recently Yes, we recently hired two new team members, and my operations director and I were on all of the calls. And she was talking to her husband after we’ve done all these interviews. And she said to her husband, we just we really liked these two candidates, so we’re going to hire them. And her husband was like, Wait, you didn’t do and he works for Amazon. Right? So it’s like, you didn’t go through the screening protocols? And did you have them do their assessment profiles? And like, what their DISC assessment were like, no, but these are the people that we want to work with. Yeah. I don’t care if their disc says that they’re, I don’t even know the letters of desk, you know, like, I don’t care what their Enneagram is. I don’t care what their MBTI is, I don’t need to know what their coli is. This is the person that I’m gonna have to spend a lot of time because, yes, yeah, this is the person that I want to get on a call with that I’m going to look forward to working with that I think is going to be reliable that I think is knowledgeable that I think will show up. And one of the things that both of those two candidates said in their interviews with us was I love your company values. Yeah, right. There was a connection that was happening that was beyond just this job, I fit the role of this job description. It was like you, I like what you stand for. I want to do this together and collaborate in this way. And if you pay me cool. So it doesn’t just have to be your client relationships, it’s every relationship in your business can feel good.

Lindsay Johnson 15:19
It’s the it’s the values alignment, right? It is, it is, you know, do we care about? It doesn’t necessarily have to be the exact same things. But in the same vein, like do we care about dismantling systems of oppression? You know, do we care about unlearning our own inherent anti whatever biases, you know, like, you know, a big thing for me is I’m very, very strong in non manipulative coercive sales tactics. And so like if I talk to someone and they, they’re all about manipulating and court coercion and getting the sale and the cost, like it’s a hard No, even like I had somebody reached out because they wanted to work with me, and they teach people how to eat keto. And I am anti diet and also keto is very unhealthy. And, and is meant for a very specific, Ill sick population to help them it’s not meant to help everybody, you know, harm their bodies to try to lose weight, like, like, so I’m like, no, sorry, it’s not going to be it’s not going to be if I had another another person there. Originally, they were in MLM and reached out to want to work, right? And I was like, why don’t actually support the MLM industry, but what else you got going on. And they themselves, were thinking about moving into a different type of industry that was more focused on helping people achieve their goals and understand how to set goals that make sense for them and actually achieve them. I’m like this, this I can work with, right? And I remember meeting my the one of the security guards at my front desk here, my building, she was like, wanting to sell me on her MLM thing. I was like, No, thank you. And I had her I said, you know, I know, I know, somebody who helps. It’s just, they’re an MLM coach, let me hook you up. And so I made the referral. And, and this person who was a client, she’s like, actually, you know, what, I really don’t want to work with MLM anymore. I’m like, Alright, so like, you know, like, we can, we can do this. So again, it’s like, I don’t, I don’t sell up my values to make money. And I and I won’t support a business that I don’t believe in.

Meg Casebolt 17:23
And you also work streaming those businesses either wasn’t like you should get out of this doesn’t align with my values. So I’m not the right person for you. It wasn’t, you know, you’re the devil. It wasn’t critical. It was just like, This is not a values alignment. And I think people respect the hell out of that. And sometimes that might, you know, make you lose you a couple grand, but like, in the long run, if it’s not something that you want to be doing, like, that’s why we started our own businesses so that we have this flexibility. So that way we can work with the people that we want to work with, and, and reverse niche out the people who we don’t want to work with. Important to know who you don’t want to work with, as it is, who you do want to work

Lindsay Johnson 18:05
is. And I want to I want to kind of follow up to what you just said I might lose a couple $1,000 No, I didn’t because that money was never ever, ever going to be mine. I base for the right couple $1,000. And that’s what people really need to wrap their heads around is that there are so there’s so much business out there for everybody. And if you are focused on trying to make the wrong people, your clients, whether it’s because you’ve got to manipulate and coerce them into taking action with you or they’re the wrong fit. If you’re focused on those people, you are missing out on the actual alive, people who are looking for you who will pay you the same money, but you won’t want to die every time you have a call with them. Like you will be in such a dream space of business, because you’re working with the people that actually want to work with. And

Meg Casebolt 18:57
I feel like, you know, the SEO side of my business. I’m talking about this with people all the time when they’re like, Well, I can help anyone. Yeah, you know, let’s say that it’s somebody who’s a health coach or a business coach or a web designer, right? Or some sort of service businesses, which is often who I’m working with. Well, I can build a website for anyone. Okay, if you had to make carbon copies of the same, you know, mechanic website repeatedly. Would that make you happy? If it would great. Go after the mechanics because God knows they need websites, right? Yeah. Like if you if you don’t want to do it 100 times, then don’t set yourself up for that. Yeah. Go figure out what does light you up. And that doesn’t mean that you know, every client needs to be a rainbow sunshine. But it can lead you in a way that you don’t resent sitting at your desk. today. Yeah.

Lindsay Johnson 19:47
Well, I think that’s one of the really important things that’s come out of the last few years here with this with this pandemic is entrepreneurs like the amount of entrepreneurs that fully completely not even pivoted their business. I was want to start at another because there was that realization of, you know, I’m doing this because I’m good at it, or I’m doing this because it’s easy. But if I’m being honest, I don’t love it. There are other things I want to be doing bigger, more important things. This is, this is not an uncommon thing to have happen when I start working with people, especially if they are within the first two or three years is that they saw not a lot, but occasionally they will completely change their business like that person I was mentioning who went from MLM to goal setting, right? Goal achieving, it’s, it’s because I think a lot of entrepreneurs, when we start businesses, we, like I said, we have things we’re good at, or things we know how to do. And that’s what we lean into. And a lot of times there can be fear around claiming the bigger thing, the deeper thing that we really want to do. And also because we don’t know how we don’t get started. And I and this is something I say all the time. And that is not knowing how to do something steals way more dreams than the fear of failure ever will. We don’t even start because we can’t see the how, and it’s such a shame.

Meg Casebolt 21:11
Yeah. And I think sometimes it’s not, there is absolutely that fear of claiming your expertise and seeing the vision of where you want to go. But I think sometimes there’s also an evolution that happens, the more that you learn, actually, I have a post with no here I’ll show you that just says lead your own evolution. Yeah, oh, yeah. I got an on a tarot card reading recently. And I was like, Oh, hot, that is hot shit for me right now is like, this doesn’t have to be something where you have the next 10 years of your life figured out. This doesn’t have to be something where you, you know, you put up the shingle of your business. And you’re like, in my case, it was like, I am a web designer. And now that is the thing that I’m going to do until I retire. I was a web designer, I built hundreds of websites in my first couple years. And then I went, Well, what I want to do next. And I moved into SEO, and then I learned all about SEO and I started teaching it and then went well what I want to do next I want to have conversations about social media marketing, right, like a new I’ll start a podcast, and then that’s opening new doors into new things. Yes, it’s not necessarily a like a radical departure. It’s not necessarily that I was holding back, because eight years ago, nine years ago, when I started, I didn’t want to be a podcaster it’s like it’s leading your own evolution and, and letting yourself lean into the things that excite you versus feeling trapped in. This is the lane that

Lindsay Johnson 22:34
I have to follow. Well, that’s a conversation that’s been coming up a lot, actually with the with like the switching for 2022 to 2023. This this time, this recognizing what is complete, where’s the evolution that’s needing to happen? And that’s a really scary thing too, for people because I’m one of those people, I hate endings, right. And so it can I can stay in relationships, I can stay in situations that are way past their completion date way past their expiration date. And that is, you know, again, I think that is something that just as, as humans, you know, we get better at is letting it be okay for things to end for things to be complete, and for that evolution to happen. And so it’s another point of just checking in with ourselves and going, am I holding on to anything that’s, that’s done that wants to be done? Right.

Meg Casebolt 23:27
That’s a hot journaling prompt.

Lindsay Johnson 23:29
Yeah. You know, like, here’s

Meg Casebolt 23:30
the thing, we as humans, our brains are wired to resist change. Yep. It is not, unless there is something that happens that pushes us to change. Our brains want to stay safe. And stability is safety. I think about every single novel you’ve ever read, people are in some sort of status quo. This is like the hero’s journey, right? Like people want some sort of status quo. And there is an inciting incident that pushes them out into the world. And some of us have been through that exciting inciting incident, which may be starting a business, it may be the reason we started a business, it may be something completely new, maybe a family member gets sick, it might be something happening in our lives, we’ve been through the inciting incident. And there’s resistance to that change. Coming and you know, resistance to the call is what it’s called in the hero. Your you may have some sort of thing that is dragging on your heart or some sort of evolution that you feel like might be happening. Yeah, but there’s a resistance to it. There’s that feeling of what was my status quo that I’m going to be leaving behind from this moment and that’s intimidating. Especially what as you’re talking about what what can be drawn to a completion? That’s a hard question to ask.

Lindsay Johnson 24:42
But as I say to like, like, think about the way the hero’s journey is presented to us as this like, you know, grand adventure that is often dangerous. And you know what I mean? Like, our media, our stories, it makes it this big, giant thing. And then even you said about not listening to the call not answering the call, like, that sounds scary, right? And so even like, I always, every

Meg Casebolt 25:09
time people talk about the refusal of the call stage, I think about Elsa being like, into the unknown, you know, like, there’s that, that resistance of not wanting to take what’s Yeah, reaching for us.

Lindsay Johnson 25:21
But I mean, if you think about your favorite movies and TV shows, and the hero’s journey, and you think that’s great for them, but I mean, I don’t want to have to march into a zombie apocalypse to find my, my, you know, inner, you know, independent, whatever sense of self worth, like, like, like, it always is such an extreme in our in our media and entertainment. So I think we really internalize this like, that it’s scary, but it really doesn’t have to be right. And, and, you know, going into the unknown, I mean, why is it so scary? Because anybody who has done this will tell you actually, it’s not that bad. Like, it’s really It’s okay, I’m alive, it’s fine. There was lots of people to support me lots of resources when I needed them. Like, it was fine. Right? And so what what is this battle? Is it the is it the conditioning, that it’s going to be some traumatic experience? Because of our, you know, film and television shows? Is it A, is it an internal fear of I don’t, you know, I feel guilty because I’m leaving people behind, or I don’t feel like I deserve it, or I’m not worth it. Like, I think it’s, I think we need to, we need to go beyond the fear of change the fear of the unknown, the fear of evolution, and we need to really ask ourselves, why we’re afraid, and that sort of cliched question of what will I regret more staying the same? Right, or going for it? And that’s always the question that I asked myself, when I’ve got, I’ve got a decision to make in terms of of going into the unknown. When I’m on my deathbed, will I regret not trying? Will I regret not doing this? Right? And sometimes it doesn’t

Meg Casebolt 27:02
have to be the big, you know, overarching traumatic choices. I think every day, there’s some sort of choice that you’re making that can lead you back into stasis, or into something new. And when you said, like, Who do I need to be? Maybe you said that maybe that was just extrapolating. But I think a lot of these decisions that we’re making are really closely tied to our self identity and self concept. You know, when I was thinking about this podcast a year ago, it wasn’t just what are the steps that I need to take, you know, I need to get podcast hosting, and I need to build a website for shownotes. And I need to get a guest list and I need to get my software together. There was also a stage of, I need to go from being a agency owner, a web designer into being a podcast host and embracing a new self identity. And I think a lot of times, we don’t see ourselves in these new roles, we need to be able to sort of create a new concept for who we are. Yeah. And it sounds like that’s what a lot of your clients are going through too, which is, who do I need to be in order to lead the business and lead the evolution? Yeah, that is clearly in front of me, or maybe I’m not clearly in front of me. Maybe there’s some soul searching that needs to happen around that. Or that is,

Lindsay Johnson 28:22
you know, any entrepreneur will tell you that that entrepreneurial journey is right with personal growth, with personal development with, you know, with and this is the whole connecting ut you piece that I do so much of what I do, I very much am aware of this as a part of the process. So I don’t have to be rigid around this. But through our work together, I know, I’m going to get you to connect more to you. Like do I have like a worksheet? No, I just know, it’s part of the process. You know what I mean? So when I say things, like a lot of what I do with the connecting ut ut ups, it is that I’m going to be asking you to put yourself out there in a bigger way than you probably ever had have before. And that is going to bring up a lot of impostor syndrome and self doubt and self worth stuff and we will work through that together. i That happens a lot in my group programs. It’s like that’s going to happen you’re going to be faced with what you want and what you don’t want what you like and what you don’t like, facing a lot of fear to put yourself out there and doing the scary thing and coming out the other side and realizing Whoa, I actually kind of liked that I’m kind of a badass, you know, these things when when you’re in a on a journey to personal growth and development, whether it’s to entrepreneurship or not. You get more confident in your ability to figure things out and be okay with the unknown and be okay with change. And it’s like a muscle you just, you know that whatever is thrown at you, you can handle it and you will figure it out and you will learn How to ask for help and use your support systems and the resources available to you. These things all develop, but you have to begin to build that trust in yourself and in your support systems. And so that’s like, you know, where can you? If that’s not something that’s natural to you yet? Where can you start doing that in a really easy, gentle way, until you’re ready to make those big swings, knowing that you will land on your feet, you may tumble a little bit, but you’ll eventually land on your feet.

Meg Casebolt 30:29
I mean, every failure gives you one more opportunity. Yeah, we were trying to explain to my eight year old, I’ve been working out with my eight year old lately. And so you know, when we’re doing these specific muscle movements, the next day, I’ll point out to him, like, did you notice how your tricep hurts today? Right? Just like what are the consequences of dressings. And so I was trying to explain to him when we’re doing like an overhead press, where we’re actually breaking the muscles in our tricep. And then overnight, it starts to build back together. And that’s why it hurts because it’s getting stronger. And as you explain, you know, these things to eight year old brain so they can understand them. Obviously, my my brains going like that’s what we’re doing every single day, because we’re breaking little things down. Yeah, building the back a little bit stronger, these like muscular tears that we’re doing every time that you try something new, and it doesn’t quite work, or you get a client who says no, and you’re like, oh, like you kind of feel a little bit bad about yourself, you’re like, Okay, what’s going to be stronger next time. And the resilience that you build with that is what you need in order to continue to go.

Lindsay Johnson 31:35
Exactly. And resilience. It’s like, I feel like we’re all so sick of the friggin word resilience for the last three years. But it is I mean, entrepreneurs, though. It is it’s, it’s, it’s listen on entrepreneurship, you need to be patient, right, you need to be resilient. And you also have to be innovative, like, it’s a good time to be innovative. And there’s a time to not, you know what I mean? Like, like, there’s a lot of times where I’m like, if there’s a process that’s working for you don’t don’t mess with that, if it’s working for you keep doing it, find a way to optimize it, you know, but like, how are you thinking in an innovative way? How are you bringing new ideas to the table, and this is something that, especially I’m gonna get some hate here. But like, especially in the online world, online business world, you know, in the course creator world, or the membership world, or the downloadable world, there’s not a lot of innovation, there’s a lot of people that are just directly copying other people, and just the same thing and are encouraged

Meg Casebolt 32:33
to directly copy people because that is the you know, if you follow my three step framework to get new clients, then you put out this video series and you send these emails and come by these templates, and we’ll teach you how to do this. And we know this works, and it preys upon people’s safety. Uh, yeah, I was trying to go with something that’s Yep. But no, it preys upon our selfs, like a self instinctual reaction, it preys upon our fear that we don’t know what we’re doing. And for what, mostly, we don’t know what we’re doing, right. Like, especially in the marketing space, like if you spent years and years going to school to become a therapist, and then you’re like, I want to start my own private practice, I have to figure out how to market Oh, no, that wasn’t covered in school, then you’re gonna go try to find a template, you’re gonna follow someone else’s systems, but then it’s there, there needs to be and all of us have learned these systems, and then we can choose which to hold in which to release and which to build upon when we are doing our own innovations. But you know, I am, by the time this airs, this will have already happened. I in November of last year, so three months ago, my team and I were figuring out what we wanted to do for, you know, launch plans for the upcoming quarter. And I said, What if he did a social celadon challenge, and so we put it on the calendar, and we figured out the cost and we set up the program, you know, the product, and then I sat down to write the affiliate copy. And I sat and looked at the affiliate copy for a week. And I went, why can’t I write this? Yeah. And then I woke up yesterday morning and went well, because it’s a free challenge mag, and then the affiliate copy came out and it was ready to go and it’s been sent out. But there’s there in these oppressive systems, these patriarchal systems capitalist systems in which were already existing I was what say thriving or not thriving. Yeah, I would have gone I need to be paid for this work I need to know. And once I realized that there was a level of generosity that could happen with it. And then a level of reciprocity that comes with generosity and a level of getting the right people into a room so that those that are ready can sell select in and those that aren’t can still be a part of the conversation. Like everything changed in my body. Yes. When I said that to myself, when I gave myself permission to listen to my gut and my intuition, I can’t remember where I was going with that. You’re leaving in like, you have something to say,

Lindsay Johnson 35:11
well, no one’s making me think a bunch of different thoughts. But I’m wondering what the was the fact

Meg Casebolt 35:16
that if I followed the plan for like, here’s how the five day challenge is supposed to go. And here’s how we put a webinar at the end of it. So that way we can coerce people into this program and make them feel guilty if they don’t join. And like if that, if that system doesn’t work, then find a better way and figure out what does align with your values and does align with your goals?

Lindsay Johnson 35:39
Well, I think like, yeah, like, there’s the technical know how there is, you know, I don’t know what an opt in page should have on it, and how to connect that to a funnel that has a trigger that has an email. So that’s, I mean, like, you know, there are technical things that we need to know, right, and we will replicate and, you know, take a course you might hire somebody fine. But I love what you just said, which is that something wasn’t sitting right with you, and you needed to take a step back and take a beat and go, like, again, what does this one evolve into? What does this want to be? And I think that’s, that’s, you know, I had a great podcast recording with somebody named Ariana for tinnitus. And she does really interesting work with entrepreneurs in sort of, like their own internal stuff. And she talks about that, like letting your business evolved into what it wants to be, right. It’s like letting your ideas evolve into what they want to be. That’s so important, too, right? And I and I will often say this to to folks as well, because I do a lot of like teaching people how to do copywriting. And it’s like, write the email. And then I want you to walk away from it like this are for newbies, right? Walk away from it, sleep on it, how do you feel the next day? Do you feel kind of icky? Like this is like a really marketing sounding like move email? Or does it feel like you’ve just written an email to your best friend, if you sell this to your best friend, but they would they think that you’re weird and trying to sell them something or they feel connected to you? Right? And so yeah, like, it’s like step away and have a think if things are not flowing, if you’re feeling that you’re having an issue, writing something or hitting send, or someone else feels icky. Like, let the idea evolve, let it be what it wants to be. And I was gonna say to your point, like, Okay, I do a ton of things for free. I have, like, I love what I do so much, I want to do it all the time. And so I do a lot of things for free, where people can come and hang out and learn and work and do great things. And then I have very specific programs that I charge for. But my revenue streams are diverse, my only source of revenue, or sorry, my source of revenue is not only based on what a client can pay me. And so because I have diverse revenue streams that come from different areas, it allows me to have flexibility, when I work with clients, it allows me to offer more for free, it allows me to offer more generous payment plans, right? Or maybe even having some scholarship type thing where they can come in for free. Like because I’m not dependent on every single person I work with paying me. The other thing too with my pricing models is some of my programs. Sure I could charge $10,000 For my accelerator, absolutely, I could and people would pay it. But that is out of alignment for me. Because I also know that I’m going to be telling the people in my program, you need to go hire this person, or you need to go hire that person. I don’t need to take all the money they have. They’re going to need to spend money in other places besides just with me. And I think that that is also an issue in coaches and programs and courses and things. It’s like, they just try to get every dollar they can out of their clients. And I just don’t agree with that. But I have the benefit of doing that because I have diverse revenue streams. And so like when I’m working with folks, especially folks that are in the scale stage, it’s not how do you charge more? It is how are you diversifying your revenue streams? How are you having money coming from other sources?

Meg Casebolt 39:11
Yeah, and I we had a recent conversation on the podcast with Helen Primatech about regenerative business models and being able to be part of an ecosystem of referrals where you don’t expect to make every dollar from your clients and by being a connector and saying I know that you need copywriting support. So I’m going to send you to the list of my copywriters that I recommend that I endorse that I know will do a good job. And when they when they need somebody who’s a business coach and a marketing coach, I know they’re gonna send people back to me when they’re ready. You know, this isn’t a closed system. Yes, if you’re doing it correctly, it’s an open system where like, you can refer people at the time that they are ready and because they have that endorsement, these referrals systems can help build the entire economy. Yeah, just line my pockets at all costs.

Lindsay Johnson 40:06
This is this is exactly it. And it’s sort of like leaning into what you said with lead your own evolution. So it’s like lead your own entrepreneurial ecosystem, because that’s exactly what it is I have a list of of different service providers, vendors, whatever that I trust, implicitly, I love their work, they take good care of my clients, when I send them that my their way. And, and vice versa. And it’s like, I love having an ecosystem of people I know who will get the job done and a good job done. Because that is another another issue. I see this like in Facebook groups all the time, help I hired this web designer, they took my money, and I haven’t been able to contact them for months, right? You know, help, I hired a person to make my sales funnel and they don’t work and everything’s broken, they’re not returning my calls. Like they spend a lot of money on scammers on people who are not good at what they do, who over promise under deliver who are just bad at what they do. Oh my gosh, one of my clients hired someone to do their emails. And I got the email coming through for a new program. And it was just one big graphic image, no text in the email. Now anyone that knows email marketing knows exactly what’s wrong with that. And this row straight to spam, not even gonna see it. Not even going to see it nothing. Oh, responsiveness

Meg Casebolt 41:19
plus the click through rate No, no, no, right?

Lindsay Johnson 41:23
This is not what you do is it’s not. But this person presents themselves as a professional as an expert and takes their hard earned money. You know, and so again, when you and friends, I cannot stress this enough, when you need another service provider, please reach out to your business friends that you trust, and ask who they trust, who they know gets the job done. So yeah, lead your own entrepreneurial ecosystem.

Meg Casebolt 41:48
I love that. So you know, I’m loving the conversation we’re having about ecosystems and referral partners. But if you don’t already have an existing ecosystem, or coach or someone like that to tap into, and you’re trying to find that community and those resources, this comes back to something that you and I talked about before we started recording, which for me, is the depth of the conversation that we’re having, like, I love having podcast conversations, because we can just go back and forth and like talk about things that wouldn’t come up in a DM where we’re just like, hey, how’s your day going? Or my dog? Right? Like, how do you my dogs really cute though. So I feel like this is one of the reasons that I personally had to remove myself almost entirely from social media is because I wasn’t having the depth of conversations that I’m able to both engage with as a podcast host and listen to in other people’s podcasts. It just felt very surface level. So do you have any recommendations for us about either how to connect with people more deeply on these platforms and or how to connect with people without using social media and or either way,

Lindsay Johnson 43:04
this absolutely comes back to what we talked at the beginning of this podcast and I’m sorry, friends, it’s networking. It is networking, you build your your entrepreneurial ecosystem through networking. And you don’t only have to do it through social media, right, you can be going like going to entrepreneurial events in real life virtually, you know, creating your own network of entrepreneurial like biz besties is E sensual, especially because if you don’t have entrepreneur friends, like they don’t get it. And a lot of times they don’t understand why you wouldn’t just go work a corporate job, but they don’t get what you’re trying to do, why you’re doing it, the hours you’re putting in the sacrifices you’re making, and they can be some of your biggest dream stealers. They can be some of your biggest naysayer. So you need to surround yourself with other entrepreneurs. This needs this needs to be a priority. So I use social media for networking, but I use tick tock I have found that networking on tick tock has been the realest conversations I’ve ever had. Instagram is garbage. Instagram was absolute fake facade highlight reel, everyone’s pretending that there’s something that they’re not like the walls are so thick to try to break down with people on Instagram. But on tick tock the nature of the platform is depending on the circles that you are in within tic tock. The content is so real and so raw and people are just, I don’t know, I find most people incredibly approachable. And if you follow them and they follow you and you get into the DMS and you start a conversation like I I don’t know what to say I am having the best conversations and like legitimately making friends like I have a friend, she her name is my friend Jana on Tik Tok, and I think on Instagram as well. And she posted the silly little skit about watching like, House of the dragon and rings the power. And I just like stitched it, which means I took a five second clip of it and then added on my own two cents to this clip. And she saw that and she wrote me and she’s like, Oh my God, you’re amazing. Can we be friends and we’re like legitimate friends. Like we play a vendor’s online together on like, on the PlayStation, we do the online gaming together, I’ve introduced her to my other friends, we’ve also worked together, she’s become a client of mine, like, like, and that’s just one like it happens all the time. I am making friends all the time, whether it’s content creator, friends, friends, friends, clients, business, friends, whatever. I love, tick tock for networking, I just, I really, really do. Again, you got to come out of your shell, you got to be okay with making the big ask and you might feel intimidated, but just send the DM people are really eager to connect with like minded folks. And because of the way the algorithm works on tick tock, you are getting shown like minded creators. And so it’s just like, oftentimes you will end up following a lot of the same people, you’re having the same conversations. So it’s like the conversations already halfway started before you ever have a have a face to face. So that’s what I love to use. So some people love LinkedIn. LinkedIn, for me is like going to be an I like going Chamber of Commerce, like people love it and swear by it for networking. So again, if that’s your jam, then do it. Right. So I think it’s just about really understanding like who you want to meet, where you are likely to connect with them. And then reach out and then don’t be surface level, get into it have a conversation, right?

Meg Casebolt 46:50
Be human, be human, and a business owner be a human?

Lindsay Johnson 46:54
Yeah, like, oh my god, don’t talk about business. Like I when I start a conversation with someone new. I don’t talk about business for a while, like I’m talking about everything else under the sun. I want to get to know the person right business, it really is like an afterthought. Right? And the thing is, is that and this is just rules for networking in general, right? Don’t go in with an agenda to make something happen. Go in with a curiosity to see where there’s alignment, and common connection and sharing a laugh. And collaboration, opportunities, referrals, those things come very organically when you are connecting authentically with somebody. Yeah,

Meg Casebolt 47:33
perfect, perfect place to end. Lindsay How can people get in touch with you?

Lindsay Johnson 47:38
Come follow me on social at radical lens. I mean, my website the radical And then I’m on all the socials at radical lens. And then I also have a do have a Facebook group if that’s your thing, where there’s a ton of entrepreneurs on there, you know, connecting collaborating, helping each other called rad connectors. So

Meg Casebolt 47:58
yeah, and then tell me about your two podcasts really quick. Oh, my God, I am a podcast. I want to be able to give people a place to go listen.

Lindsay Johnson 48:07
I always forget friends. I always forget about my podcast. I love it and people like you the podcast. I’m like, Yeah, I do. I’m so sorry. I need to talk about it more. My first podcast is worth less play more. And it is an interview style podcast with other badass entrepreneurs who are just sharing the things that they’ve learned like it is like again, the best conversations just like this. So go have a listen. And then the other one that I’m just working on now that should be out by the time this podcast is released is fantastical fatties and that is another place you can find me on tick tock, fantastical, Fatty, and the podcast is all about fat liberation and fat joy. And so I’m interviewing different fatties and we’re talking about what what they got going on. I love that. Okay, well, we’ll put all of

Meg Casebolt 48:52
those links in the show notes. Thank you so much for being here with me. I really appreciate it.

Lindsay Johnson 48:57
My absolute pleasure. This is a was been a wonderful conversation. I can’t wait to re listen to it. We I’m gonna nerd out. It’s so good.

Meg Casebolt 49:06
Thank you so much for listening to the social slowdown podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe or come on over to social and sign up for our email list so you never miss an episode. We’d also love if you could write a review to help other small business owners find the show you can head over to social Or grab that link in our show notes for easy access. We’ll be back soon with more tips to help you market your business without being beholden to social media Talk to you then

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